The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below.

00:01:06:08 – 00:01:20:24

Richard Carthon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Crypto Current, your host here, Richard Carthon and today we have a special guest working on something very relevant to everything that’s going on in the world of COVID right now. We have David Lucatch with Liquid Avatar. How are you doing today? 

00:01:21:06 – 00:01:23:18

David Lucatch: I’m doing great, Richard. Hopefully you’re doing well as well. 

00:01:24:13 – 00:01:32:14

Richard Carthon: I’m doing excellent. Glad you could join us. Excited to be learning more about what you got going. But first, before we do, I want to learn more about you, can you give us some background on yourself? 

00:01:32:27 – 00:02:22:17

David Lucatch: Wow. I’ll try and keep it short, because it’s been a long career, but I’ve been in the sort of the Internet space since the mid 90s. I’ve done a lot of very interesting projects, including being responsible for the team that developed the way that Canadians type in their credit card online. So, that was one of the first projects I brought to the table with Visa and MasterCard and the Canadian banking system, then all kinds of other technology like translation technology, real-time translation technology that was used by companies like Disney and Marvel and Star Wars and Yahoo! to translate things like interviews of celebrities in real time. And I’ve done some, you know, some great pet projects, too, including work with the New York Yankees. So, it’s been a very fun-filled career. 

00:02:23:12 – 00:02:42:12

Richard Carthon: Man, awesome. I know that you just threw in that last bit, and I have to jump on it because I’m absolutely a Yankees fan. So, that’s awesome. But outside of that, it sounds like you’ve been working on a lot of revolutionary technology in a lot of different capacities and it’s very fitting that you’re now into the world of Krypto and Blockchain. So, what was that first introduction to Crypto and Blockchain? How did you first learn about it? 

00:02:43:02 – 00:02:59:21

David Lucatch: Well, you know, I’ve known about it for many years, but really got an opportunity in around, you know, late 2016, early 2017, to really start diving into it. And we took a bit of a different approach. You know, I like to say Homer Simpson looked for doughnuts and we looked for holes.

00:02:59:23 – 00:03:00:08

Richard Carthon: Yeah.

00:03:00:10 – 00:03:07:08

David Lucatch: Right? So, we don’t want to be where everybody else is, right? It’s not like a bad Cheers episode where everybody knows your name, we want to be somewhere else, right?

00:03:07:10 – 00:03:07:25

Richard Carthon: Right.

00:03:07:27 – 00:03:59:15

David Lucatch: So, we decided to look at identity and basically compliance when it came to Cryptocurrency, because we felt at the time that, you know, with the rise of Cryptocurrencies and Crypto technology, there was going to be a need for opportunities for identity. Because if you think about identity, the Internet has never been about identity, but should have been from the beginning, because it actually is a pretty easy thing to want to embed, but technologically, it was very, very difficult. So, Blockchain technology has now helped, along with digital or decentralized identifiers, has helped enable the opportunity for users to finally own their own identity and to potentially reduce fraud and credit card theft and identity theft and all of those things. So, we think we’re in the right place at the right time. 

00:04:00:18 – 00:04:25:16

Richard Carthon: I agree, and especially now our digital footprint is much more massive and we’re going a lot more places in everything that we do. We basically live on our phones and so, as we kind of learn how valuable our information is and how we’re kind of just transforming in this technological world, you are creating what is now known as liquid apps. Can you explain what it is and and how people can get involved with it? 

00:04:26:03 – 00:04:49:11

David Lucatch: Sure. So the idea behind Liquid Avatar is really quite simple. You know, we are the sum of our parts online. So, you know, I’m a father, I’m a husband, I’m a family guy, I’m a gamer, I’m an Internet guy. You know, I watch certain types of program, I consume certain types of content. All of those different things are different facets of my personality. 

00:04:49:20 – 00:05:31:16

David Lucatch: So, we believe that if we were going to help people create identities online, it would have to be the sum of their parts. I may not want to share my social media with like, Facebook with my work credentials, and I may not want to share LinkedIn with my family. Like, there’s different things. And when I go and take educational courses online, that may only be for certain reasoning and I may not want to share other information. Ecommerce, the same thing. So, we develop liquid avatars so that you could associate an icon or avatar with different facets of your personality, different facets of your identity. And then, as we grow, different types of verifiable credentials that are associated with the different parts of your personality. 

00:05:32:19 – 00:06:09:23

Richard Carthon: It makes a ton of sense to me, especially as, like you said, being the gamer, also just being a part of everything that we’re kind of going through life and even having a lot of logins that we use across all those features. Like, one of the things that kind of comes to mind is for people that have Apple, it’s like the Bitmojis, right? Or when the emoji people came up, you kind of create this person, but it kind of just lives in this like, social place. You can’t really extend it outside. It sounds like it’s kind of taking on that approach, but truly allowing you to go across and have interoperability across all of these different platforms with your online identity. 

00:06:10:09 – 00:07:07:20

David Lucatch: Well, I mean, Richard, that’s very true. I mean, the idea is, if I can just use it to send you a funny message, that’s great, but we’re looking at augmented reality and metaverse applications and where it goes beyond that, because, again, you know, we’re all kind of living on the edge of ready player one. And so, it’s sort of what can we use to get there? And you brought up an interesting point. I mean, one of the things and I’m sure we’ll talk about is applications, but, you know, think about all the passwords and usernames you have. With digital identity, you can effectively replace all of those with biometric and verifiable credential sign in, not just using your face on your phone, but together with a verifiable credential that allows you to enter a particular site or opportunity that only you can control through decentralized identity or self sovereign identity. So, it really makes it easy. I just had this this morning where I’m trying to remember, okay, which password did I use for this and that? 

00:07:08:03 – 00:07:08:18

Richard Carthon: Right.

00:07:08:20 – 00:07:30:03

David Lucatch: And what are my 17 words that I need to use for recovery if I lose my, you know, my Crypto wallet? It gets daunting and there are lots of issues out there and I want to be in control of my identity. I want to be in control of my assets and Liquid Avatar technologies and our suite of products help you do that. 

00:07:31:00 – 00:08:06:09

Richard Carthon: Which is really cool. And for the person that’s now listening to this, like yes, I want to be able to keep all of my information in one place, also having this avatar that can enter the metaverse, because that’s a really big thing that is coming into the world of Crypto, as we know, as we look at AR VR, NFTs, gaming, all of those sectors. It’d definitely be cool to have a transferable avatar that can go within all of these different universes. So, can you kind of explain like, how that’s able to like, work or what the vision is for where liquid avatars are headed?

00:08:07:10 – 00:08:49:00

David Lucatch: Well, I’ll start with the vision, because the reality is it’s still a little bit away. But the idea is that if you have an avatar, it can actually be various types of avatars. You could have a 2D avatar, a 3D avatar, a low poly avatar. There’s all kinds of different avatars that you can have and you can control the icons. We have tons of free avatars and users will eventually be able to upload their own avatars as well. And then, you’ll be able to go to the Liquid Avatar marketplace and buy really cool created avatars if you want. So, there’s lots of opportunity. You know, somewhat like some of the games out there, but beyond that, where you’re going to have creators and you’re going to have self generated avatar, so, there’s lots of different opportunities. 

00:08:49:03 – 00:09:32:07

David Lucatch: But the idea is that I can take a particular avatar into a particular, you know, URL or location and use that as part of my identity, backed up by my individual biometrics Blockchain based technology and verifiable credentials. So, I might decide to use a particular avatar for, you know, one type of metaverse, but because it is very social. But if I’m in a gaming metaverse that I really want to, you know, show my warrior self, I can use that avatar. And that would be connected to different attributes, different attestations and different credentials. So, this is really the next phase of who I am. 

00:09:32:09 – 00:09:53:04

David Lucatch: And we have a saying that we allow you to share what you want, when you want and with whom you want. That’s the whole premise. And you are in control. The idea behind the Liquid Avatar is to empower users to manage and control their self sovereign identity. We’re the catalyst, not the owner. You’re the owner. 

00:09:53:24 – 00:10:22:07

Richard Carthon: Right. And on that note, I think something that’s really crucial that’s happening right now as it comes to that kind of identity is we’re currently living in a COVID world. As we go out and about, there are certain places where you now have to have proof of vaccination and other things like that. And I mean, I know people who have already lost their vaccination cards, so, does that mean that they’re no longer able to go out and do certain things? So, I know recently you just announced something called the Lace. Can you explain what that is? 

00:10:22:21 – 00:11:21:02

David Lucatch: Well, it’s actually called the Lavce. So, it’s actually the liquid avatar, verifiable credentials, ecosystem or Lavce. It’s a mouthful, but we couldn’t kind of make it any smaller. And the idea behind the Lavce is, again, very simple. If you think and I’m going to use an example that I think all your listeners and viewers can appreciate, when you go into a store to make a financial transaction, you know, and you use a card, whether it’s a credit card or a debit card, you know, you tap a machine or you enter your card or if you’ve got, you know, Apple Wallet or Google Wallet, you can engage with the payment terminal and that payment terminal is initially controlled by that store. So, the store is a verifier, they want to verify that the transaction is good. You are the holder of that card or that data set. And then, the issuer, your financial transaction, your financial service provider is the issuer. 

00:11:21:24 – 00:12:17:08

David Lucatch: So, you’ve got an issuer, a holder and a verifier in this unique triangle that moves information back and forth. And the verifier of the store wants to know that the transaction is good, the financial institution wants to make sure you’re you and this all goes back and forth in microseconds. But at some point in time in that transaction, there is a challenge issued, use a pen, use a signature, use something to verify that you are validated, that you are who you say you are as the holder. So, we’re used to that. And in that relationship and when that triangle exists, and the transaction goes through, there is no personally identifiable information transfer. Nobody asks you for your name or your address or your birth date. Everyone operates in this trustless environment, knowing that in that ecosystem, everything is correct. Identity transactions work exactly the same way. Identity access and qualification. 

00:12:17:10 – 00:13:25:13

David Lucatch: So, the Lavce emulates what you do in a transaction alignment like financial transactions, but with identity access and qualification credentials. So, you may walk into a restaurant, let’s say, and they might say, “Well, look, we need proof of vaccination” or a workplace and ask for proof of health testing, and using your liquid avatar credentials that were issued in advance and you qualified for, you would be able to scan a QR code and that would initiate transaction just like tapping or scanning a card. And all of that would happen in microseconds. And the challenge that might be issued is, you know what? Show us your face on your phone and we recognize your face and the transaction goes through. So, we’re not reinventing the wheel. We’re taking modern, you know, state of the art technology with user control or holder control and emulating the same type of transaction environments that you’re already used to. And we’ve proven this and it’s live. So, this isn’t a vision, this is reality. 

00:13:25:29 – 00:13:58:17

Richard Carthon: Which is really cool. And the fact that you’ve been able to like, implement this, we’re moving into a more transactional world. We’re already pretty transactional as a society, and especially here in the US. But with something as simple as you go to this restaurant, all you have to do is pull out your iPhone or Apple Watch, click a thing, it verifies it and you keep on pushing the same way that, you know, when that kind of technology came out, when you went to the airport and you had like, your ticket on your phone, and all you have to do is scan it and keep moving. Like, that’s awesome. Like, it’s really cool that y’all are building that. 

00:13:59:12 – 00:14:27:28

David Lucatch: Well, it’s built, so. And there’s more coming out. We started with health credentials and why health credentials? Because it’s actually, it’s somewhat tougher than COVID vaccination because, you know, it opens up the travel world. So, we’re talking to organizations in the travel industry to talk about when you go to an airport, you want to travel internationally, do you have not only your vaccination credential, but do you have a testing credential? So, we can work with licensed labs to make all this happen. 

00:14:28:06 – 00:15:10:13

David Lucatch: And then, we’re just in the process of bringing out vaccination credentials as well. So, you won’t need a paper card and some of it will be self-tested, which means you fill out that information against a verified identity or we can use government issued records to connect to our system, and then we can take those government records and embed them and create not an electronic, but a digital credential that is tied to your identity. Now, one of the questions, Richard, that comes up, it goes, well, what if I don’t have a phone? What if grandma doesn’t have a phone? So, we are also very cognizant as individuals to be socially responsible. 

00:15:10:15 – 00:15:36:01

David Lucatch: So, we have to include inclusion. So, there will be other systems and we won’t be the only one, but there will be other systems that will allow you to use paper and electronic emails and that type of stuff. But we’re really focused on the digital credential, which is two steps above paper, one step above an email or electronic. It is verified and connected to your identity. So, only you can use it. 

00:15:37:09 – 00:16:14:21

Richard Carthon: And to your point of being able to print it on paper and do a lot of this, a lot of our society has moved to a phone. Most of us have phones at this point. I would say there’s a small part that does not have access to it, but there’s also a way that even if you are on your computer, I imagine there’d potentially be like a Web interface. You go on there, you print it out, now you can go to the thing and keep pushing. And there’s all kinds of solutions that come with it, but the end point is that you have a solution in place. And I know that you have some other things that are kind of on the horizon that are coming out pretty soon. Do you want to talk about some of those? 

00:16:19:07 – 00:17:54:00

David Lucatch: We’ve gone from testing to now working on vaccine credentials, but we’re also working on solutions that’ll make it easier to verify. I mean, when you think about it and you walk into, let’s say, an arena or a stadium, how do you digitally or electronically verify everyone? So, we have to be able to tie into things like ticketing systems and POS systems and resort technology and travel technology. So, we’re working with partners to create something new called Passmate, which will be coming out later this year, which will tie verifiable credentials into the same ecosystems that our network cards like Visa and MasterCard use. So, we’re really focused on what’s the next evolution. How do we make it easier and more valuable while keeping the costs down? 

00:17:54:11 – 00:18:28:12

David Lucatch: So, all our solutions to consumers are available at this point, free of charge to everyone. So, we don’t charge a consumer for anything. And we have other ways of making money. We never sell or rent data, but because you’re a member of our ecosystem, we have opportunities that we can introduce you to because you’re a real person. In the Liquid Avatar environment, one user, one account because you’re biometrically verified. So, you can’t open up multiple accounts because you only have one face, so, or one set of fingerprints or other, you know, biometric identity. 

00:18:28:21 – 00:19:09:05

David Lucatch: So, vendors, merchants, want to reach real people, they don’t want to spend money going to social media and blow their, you know, proverbial brains out or electronic brains out on spending money on reaching people that don’t exist or bots or hacks or fakes. So, we offer that solution. So, they’re willing to give our constituents better deals on average. So, we have that opportunity, which we can make a little bit of money out of. And then, we have SaaS models developing for issuer’s, organizations that want to issue verifiable credentials cost effectively and  efficiently, so, that we can get Internet scale. And then, we have ways to verify them again, using our SaaS modeling. 

00:19:09:11 – 00:19:37:18

David Lucatch: Now, what’s really interesting, although we have the Liquid Avatar mobile app, we’re also developing SDKs so that anyone’s app can install the Liquid Avatar digital wallets. So, now you can empower any app to use verifiable credentials, not just our app. So, we really want to bring this to the masses very quickly on a cost effective Internet scale basis that is fast, friendly and usable to everyone in the ecosystem. 

00:19:38:06 – 00:20:12:01

Richard Carthon: I think the SDK plays a huge thing. It’s not an easy thing to build, but it allows, like you said, the ecosystem to keep growing. And I mean, everything that y’all are bringing to this is where we’re headed as a society and you’re building it and have built it. And like, that is extremely cool, but one of the things that I immediately question or like, definitely think a lot of people might be questioning as well is like, Okay, let’s say that I have the app or I have whatnot and someone steals my phone or someone gets whatever, does that now mean that they have access to everything? 

00:20:12:24 – 00:20:52:12

David Lucatch: No. So, we took a different tack than many others in the industry. We created what’s called a custodial wallet. So, when you look at things like Apple or Google, there’s two issues or any of the mobile wallets. One, they’re on your phone. So, they’re called edge based wallets. And because they’re on your phone, it means that if you don’t update or back up regularly, if your phone is compromised, there is the ability to potentially, I won’t say, it takes some sophistication, but potentially compromise the data that’s on the phone. That we all know that. And there’s sim port hacks and there’s all kinds of things that cause these issues. 

00:20:53:10 – 00:21:27:22

David Lucatch: The other thing, too, is that manufacturer wallets are not, in our opinion, self sovereign. You don’t control them. Apple could tell you what or whatnot potentially to put in that wallet. They could say you can or cannot. We only deal in self sovereign wallets, which means you are in full control. We cannot see what’s in there. But more importantly, it’s cloud based. There is a connection to the agent on your phone, but if your phone is compromised, lost or stolen, all the data is recoverable because you are the owner of your biometrics and your data, not us. 

00:21:28:12 – 00:21:57:14

David Lucatch: So, we’ve really looked at that from day one and said, Okay, how do we empower Richard? Not Liquid Avatar. How do we empower Richard to be able to control and manage his digital identity? Because that should be a basic human right, right? That your identity belongs to you. You should benefit from this value. So, that’s the premise we took from day one. So, we really took a very decentralized approach to this and one where we are the support mechanism, not the owners. 

00:21:58:25 – 00:22:44:15

Richard Carthon: And it’s the best way to go. Keep empowering people, let people have control of their stuff, especially being in a more Crypto, Blockchain focused world, I think that’s a lot of the mindset that’s within it. And it also just keeps allowing people to have more control over the things that right now, unfortunately, in the world, they don’t have control of and are able to keep bringing this into this next decade of where the world is headed in the Crypto, Blockchain space. And one other thing I just want to ask as a wrap up is as people are looking and listening to this right now and want to learn about these liquid avatars, you know, if they were to download the app or where to go and try to get involved right now, like, what are some of the first things that they would be able to do? 

00:22:45:09 – 00:23:10:29

David Lucatch: Well, what’s really amazing is we brought the app out in February, I believe was February 18th this year. And the first thing we did is, is listen to the feedback of users, because, you know, sometimes you can’t see the forest or the trees no matter how hard you try. And this is all new technology. So, we got some great, great feedback. And we’re actually bringing out an absolutely new version of the app in September. 

00:23:11:11 – 00:24:01:22

David Lucatch: So, you can go to the Google Play or Apple App Store and you can download it today. But keep in mind that a lot of the bells and whistles are coming in September, so, we encourage everybody to do so. You can also go to LiquidAvatarTechnologies.com or LiquidAvatar.com and see more. So really, we’ve spent a lot of time, energy and resources focused on what our constituents want. That is, is consumers are individuals and entities are holders, our issuers are now verifiers. And we’re now seeing accelerating opportunities because we’re built and unfortunately, the landscape with a number of the variants out there is changing. So, people want safety, security while maintaining privacy. And I think we have a solution that supports that. 

00:24:02:17 – 00:24:40:09

Richard Carthon: Definitely, definitely. And it’s already starting to be used in real life, so, definitely have a leg up there. And definitely appreciate you sharing all that information with us. One of the questions that I kind of want to now dive into is you’ve been in this space for a while, you know, you have a lot of experience being a serial entrepreneur and you’ve seen over the decades all kinds of phases that we’re in. You know, whether it’s Web 1.0, 2.0, now we’re headed to 3.0, the evolution of the app stores and like, everything else like that. But like, as we kind of look to this next decade of technology and where things are headed, what do you think we are headed to as a society? 

00:24:41:03 – 00:25:06:12

David Lucatch: Well, I think, you know, the catalyst is already happened, unfortunately. And I say and you do not want to take comfort in the misery of others or the issues of others, but COVID was a real awakening for many people and organizations. I mean, I remember when we developed our first set of technologies, everyone told us no one would ever shop online. And that was, I mean, rampant. No one’s ever going to shop online and obviously, that wasn’t true. 

00:25:07:12 – 00:26:10:08

David Lucatch: But with the new technologies that we’re seeing in the advent of adding identity, we think that the virtual world is going to expand dramatically. I don’t think we’ll be spending all our time online, but we’re going to be spending more and more and we’ll be doing more and more. And, you know, I previously mentioned ready player one, you know, a little while ago, but I really think as a bit of a futurist that we are heading towards, you know, that intersection where my real life and my virtual life are effectively one in the same. I’m not married anymore, but once my identity is really valued online, it is one in the same. And so, I think we’re going to see obviously VR takes a lot of technology and so, AR is already here. And Liquid Avatar already has AR built in. And, but I think we’re going to see more metaverse applications, more viewer party type applications where we can do more and more things online together. 

00:26:11:13 – 00:26:48:24

Richard Carthon: Definitely. And I think that cross-section, like you’re saying, like your real life self and your virtual self, kind of truly slowly becoming one. For macerated player one, it’s very viable and on track and on pace to really be something that could be here in the next decade. So, I definitely appreciate that insight. Again, with the wealth of knowledge that you have and a lot of listeners that come on our show, a lot of them are entrepreneurs or have entrepreneurial spirits. And I always like to ask if you could take all the information that you have right now and can impart wisdom to yourself when you first got started, one to two things, what would you share with yourself? 

00:26:49:10 – 00:27:14:27

David Lucatch: You know, it’s funny, I had an article written about me when I was 25. And I know I was 25 because it was shortly after I got married and was wearing my, you know, going away wedding suit. So, I do remember the article and they asked me at the time, what do you think makes a good entrepreneur? And it hasn’t changed in almost 35 years. Surround yourself with people that know more than you do and draw on their talents. That is so important. 

00:27:14:29 – 00:27:31:16

David Lucatch: Listen, don’t be afraid to listen. Don’t just hear, but listen. And I got the most amazing advice many years ago, it was make a decision. So, make a decision. You can always change your mind, but make a decision. 

00:27:31:18 – 00:28:06:26

David Lucatch: And lastly, another very prolific marketer gave me this information about 20 years ago. Crawl, walk, run. As babies, we do not start off running. So, if you’re going to start something, start off by crawling and along that process, again, listen to others. Don’t just hear them, listen. And everybody’s got an opinion. Opinions are like, sort of like bottoms, everybody’s got one. But if you take the time to listen, you’ll be able to discern some really good information and seek out mentors. I mean, I did. 

00:28:07:04 – 00:28:33:29

David Lucatch: And don’t be ashamed to seek out mentors. Don’t be ashamed to ask for advice. Those of us that have learned and have a bit of wisdom are usually happy to help. You know, I’ve been very fortunate. I live in the Toronto area, and I’ve been a big supporter of the University of Toronto and for many years have been called on to be a mentor. And I’ve learned from all my time in doing that that you can only compress the time wisdom equation so much. 

00:28:34:12 – 00:28:55:12

David Lucatch: So, you do need time to garner wisdom. Believe me, I remember someone telling me, you know, certain things when I was young and said, you know what? You know, I think I can do better. And they were right because they had the wisdom. So, there’s just some, you know, we all get great pieces of advice from family, friends, mentors. Just listen. I think that’s really important. 

00:28:56:09 – 00:29:18:20

Richard Carthon: I think that’s great. I mean, those are all gems. Everyone listening, go back, replay that again and instill in your mind and find ways to keep doing it. The one that I’m definitely going to re-emphasize for everyone here, crawl, walk, run. And again, we live in a society where everyone wants to highlight themselves sprinting and no one really talks about how they got there, and are able to get to that place. 

00:29:18:22 – 00:29:39:20

Richard Carthon: And so, enjoy the journey, make sure you just keep taking that step. Like you said, make a decision. I think that’s another good one. So, many people get in analysis paralysis, and never just take that first action to just start. So, again, thank you so much for those gems. But you know, David, with all the information you’ve dropped on us today, which you left a ton of great things for us, what is a final thought that you want to leave for everyone here today? 

00:29:40:05 – 00:30:11:15

David Lucatch: Well, I just, I want to, you know, let everyone know that you’re important. Like, we’re all important to this journey. And we really took a position in this company that, you know, the individual is important, is as important as the collective. And so, you know, get out there and, you know, do the things that create a positive action. And don’t forget to to pay it forward, right? At the end of the day. 

00:30:11:24 – 00:30:27:14

David Lucatch: And, you know, I have to say, I live by the advice I’ve just given. I live by it every day. My team will tell you, I say crawl, walk, run all the time. So, you know, just do your best every day. That’s what we try and do with each other. 

00:30:28:09 – 00:30:49:22

Richard Carthon: No doubt. And I think that’s great. Everyone matters. You matter. Again, everyone listening, if you’re hearing that, just a great reminder, you matter. So, keep moving forward, keep pushing forward and hopefully this little last bit of encouragement is what you needed to just get you over the edge and keep pushing forward. So, thank you so much for that, David. What are ways that people can connect with you and learn more about everything that you have going on? 

00:30:50:13 – 00:31:16:11

David Lucatch: We again, you can go to LiquidAvatarTechnologies.com. Sign up for our weekly buzz. We send out an email to all our constituents every Monday evening. And it’s got great information that they can learn from. Connect with me on LinkedIn, that’s my primary way. And, you know, reach out. I encourage you to reach out. We welcome the opportunity. And if you’ve got things you want to share with us, we’re open minded. You know, that’s the way we like to run our organization.

00:31:16:13 – 00:31:17:23

Richard Carthon: Growth mindset versus a fixed mindset, so, I think that’s great. David, thank you so much again for everything that you shared with us. And of course for everyone listening, Stay Crypto Current.