The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below. 

00:00:05:25 – 00:00:26:12

Richard Carthon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Crypto Current, your host here, Richard Carthon. And today I got a very special guest working on what is, I think, an extremely amazing company that just dropped some extremely cool, major news that I don’t know of another company that is doing this. We have the one and only Erik Voorhees with ShapeShift. How are you doing today? 

00:00:27:09 – 00:00:31:18

Erik Voorhees: I’m doing great. It’s still a little wild but doing well. Glad to be here on the show.

00:00:32:22 – 00:00:46:13

Richard Carthon: No doubt. Man, well, you just dropped some really good news on me, we’re going to dive into that, but first for the audience, those who don’t know you, which if you don’t know who Erik is by now, you’re living under a rock, but great news today is the day you get to learn about him. Erik, give us some background on yourself. 

00:00:47:24 – 00:01:48:11

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. So, I got into Bitcoin in 2011, May of 2011, back when Bitcoin was like $5 and no one in the world cared about it and fell in love with it because I’m interested in monetary sovereignty for all people. So, I’ve been in the space since then, started a number of businesses, including Satoshi Dice, which is the biggest Bitcoin casino game in the universe back in the day, and was one of the early people at that instant in New York. But for the last seven years, since 2014, I have been the founder and CEO of ShapeShift. So, ShapeShift has been, well, in its early days, was a way to convert one digital asset into another without custody or accounts. And more recently, we’re more like a full suite Crypto interface, still non-custodial, so, if you want to interact with your digital assets and not have to trust a third party at any step in the process, we are a great option for you. So, that’s me. 

00:01:49:04 – 00:02:16:16

Richard Carthon: Yeah. And I mean, there’s so much we can unpack in it and you’ve been in the game for a long time. I mean, you really saw the first decade of Crypto and you can see like the bigger picture of where everything is headed, and I definitely want to spend time on that later. But through your journey, one of the things that I heard you say previously is that one of the greatest ways that you can truly learn something is to go in and use it. So, I know that you’re a developer and you were really going and using the code trading and sending Bitcoin. 

00:02:16:18 – 00:02:17:19

Erik Voorhees: I’m not a developer. 

00:02:17:27 – 00:02:32:22

Richard Carthon: Oh, sorry. Sorry, so, not a developer, but like, you were like, going in the code and like, seeing how everything was going, you were actually like using it. How has that experience crafted how you created ShapeShift and what you ultimately like, wanted it to be? 

00:02:33:26 – 00:03:17:18

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. Well, actually, because I’m not a developer and I actually can’t read any code, unfortunately, if I could go back to school, I think that’s what I would have loved to study, but I see this stuff as more like a normal person who doesn’t understand the code at all. And it needs to be compelling and easy to use and approachable, so, that’s what I have tried to build, everything that I have my hands in, that’s kind of my principle is like, does this make sense for someone who does not care about the technology? Because a lot of people do, but if we’re trying to get eight billion people into the financial system, we have to build tools that are easy and approachable for them. So, that has always been my perspective. 

00:03:18:15 – 00:03:43:17

Richard Carthon: Right, which is a powerful one, which is why ShapeShift is extremely user friendly. So, I went on and spent some time on it and, you know, you’re able to access a ton of different Cryptos and it is now fully decentralized, which I know is new news since around April, y’all kind of shifted to that. And I know you for a moment had to use some KYC to set everything up and broke away from it. Can you kind of talk about that journey? 

00:03:44:15 – 00:04:25:29

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. So, that’s been a big journey. When we started, we did not have user accounts. When you wanted to do a trade, you would just send in Bitcoin and receive Ethereum. And that trade went through us, but there were no user accounts, there was no KYC. It was just like, go to the website, do the trade. It’s like, that’s how it should work. That’s how the customer wants it to work fast, simple and it protects their privacy, it doesn’t expose their personal private information. And that’s kind of what we built our reputation on. In 2018, we came to the very unfortunate conclusion that we would have to implement KYC in accounts on ShapeShift. And this was because we were an intermediary to the trade. 

00:04:26:26 – 00:05:21:12

Erik Voorhees: So, our belief was that regulators would end up treating us like a financial institution, meaning we had to act like a bank, which was of course completely against our DNA and our ethos and our sense of ethics. But we had to do it because, you know, men with guns were going to force us to do it. So, that was 2018 and that was a pretty dark time. We implemented KYC, we lost like, 99 percent of our business. It was pretty brutal, and we kept on trucking. I kept adapting the products. We changed it from this, you know, solely in exchange to this full feature Crypto interface where you could plug in your hardware wallets and interact with your digital assets in a safe and easy way. But it still had that KYC and a lot of people understandably, that was not cool. Like, they don’t want to join a Crypto project just to feel like they’re working with a bank again. 

00:06:45:18 – 00:07:35:12

Erik Voorhees: So, after KYC, we lost 99 percent of our customer base. They just split with competitors that were not being as careful as we were. And we spent those last couple of years reimagining the ShapeShift product into a new interface for people to interact with their digital assets. So, still self-custody, people could still trade, but of course, it all still have the KYC. And we did not have a solution to this until we started seeing some of these decentralized exchanges like Uniswap get very popular going into 2020. And we realized that if we could just give up on our main business model, we could integrate these decentralized exchanges and bring back our vision, which was to allow people to swap assets seamlessly, easily and protect them. So, that’s what we did. 

00:07:35:14 – 00:08:06:10

Erik Voorhees: We integrated Uniswap, about a dozen other Ethereum based Dex’s and in April, we launched our Thor Chain integration, which allowed people to trade actual like, native non-wrapped Bitcoin for native non-wrapped Ethereum. So, on Thor Chain you can actually go across chains in a decentralized way, which is a huge development. So, by then, we didn’t need to be trading at all with customers anymore. We didn’t need to be a financial institution anymore and we were able to get rid of KYC entirely. 

00:08:07:08 – 00:08:47:22

Richard Carthon: Which is extremely powerful, and for those who don’t necessarily understand like, KYC, so for other exchanges, like a Coinbase, for example, you have to go and submit documents to be able to do certain exchanges in and out of that exchange. But now with ShapeShift, you don’t have to prove anything. You can come in ready with your Crypto to buy and sell and exchange it to others. And that is extremely powerful. But not only are you not able to do that on ShapeShift, you as an organization decide to go even a step further. So, top of the hour, breaking news, Erik shared with me that your company’s actually going fully decentralized. Do you care to expand on that? 

00:08:49:28 – 00:09:37:15

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. So, just today, we announced that ShapeShift is decentralizing the entire company. So, earlier this year, we had integrated decentralized exchanges, so, the trades would happen through that format, but we are still a centralized company, you know, with shareholders and a board and we’re based in certain jurisdictions and all that. We are starting a process of decentralizing entirely. So, this means that ShapeShift is going from a model based on equity with employees and a corporate entity to a model that is fully open source, will not have employees, will not have shareholders and will be based entirely around the Fox token. So, we are becoming a Dao, a decentralized, autonomous organization for your readers who are familiar with that term. 

00:09:39:03 – 00:09:39:18

Richard Carthon: Absolutely. 

00:09:39:21 – 00:10:19:04

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. So, this will be a process. Like, we’re not decentralized today, but we are going completely decentralized with time, which means that eventually the ShapeShift entity itself will be gone and all the code and the platform itself will be open sourced. So, really, this now becomes like a community project where everyone that is holding Fox tokens is our governing board, instead of shareholders, and the value of pool on the platform will be token instead of shareholders. So, that was the big news today. And, you know, just look up ShapeShift decentralization, you can find more information about it. 

00:10:19:24 – 00:11:02:28

Richard Carthon: Man, which is extremely cool. I mean, I believe you’re the first one to do this and I think it is not only extremely smart, but you’re literally taking the core of what decentralized and what Bitcoin’s made for in the first place and doing it fully into your organization, right? So, like, you went through the full progression of going with the intent of creating that, unfortunately, having to go to the old ways, because that’s what the time needed. So 2018, bear market, having to kind of like, deal with a lot of extra stuff just to get it across the finish line and now as it’s becoming more and more open, there’s more ways that you can have the guidance to be able to provide this type of opportunity, which I think is incredible. 

00:11:03:23 – 00:11:35:20

Erik Voorhees: Thanks. Yeah, it has been a crazy journey, and we’ve been able to evolve as the technology and the ecosystem has been able to evolve. So, there are things that we’re able to do today that these tools just didn’t exist, you know, three or four years ago and it’s been really, really exciting for me to see that these projects that are out there are helping us and hopefully we can help other projects as well. And so, you know, that’s the sign of a very healthy industry when each project is making the other one stronger. 

00:11:36:21 – 00:12:07:13

Richard Carthon: No doubt, man. And what I think is going to be really cool about the Dao is that you’re giving the power back to truly your community. They’re having a voice, they’re having a way that they can vote, they’re having a way that they can reap the benefits of the greater organization growing. And it’s like you’re creating these super fans, if you will, that are truly invested in seeing the growth of the company succeed without just going out and chilling and doing whatever. It’s like, you’re actively having a way for your community to really buy in, which I think is great. 

00:12:07:15 – 00:12:39:18

Richard Carthon: And just in a greater sense, you’re still giving more and more people internationally the ability to get in some of these Cryptos that you otherwise couldn’t, right? So, a lot of times to have access to these certain Cryptos that are out there, you have to go on multiple exchanges, or you have to be able to wrap your BTC, wrap your ETC and, you know, by using Thor Chain and other ways, you are truly trying to make it as easy as possible for a newbie or anyone to come in and have access, which is incredible. 

00:13:38:25 – 00:14:14:29

Erik Voorhees: So ShapeShift’s sort of distinguishing factor is that it’s a self-custody platform, so, a lot of people will use Coinbase and they have access to a lot of Crypto services through that. Coinbase is a great company. They’ve built a wonderful business, but they are holding everyone’s funds and you lose the most important attributes of digital assets when you have someone else holding them for you. So, ShapeShift allows you to do more and more things with your Crypto, but to do it always while maintaining control of your keys and maintaining control of your assets. So, we think that’s super important. 

00:14:15:27 – 00:14:38:06

Richard Carthon: Yeah. We talk on this show about not your keys, not your assets. And what’s great about this and one of the things I appreciate about ShapeShift is that you control all of that and it’s within your custody. And it puts more responsibility on you, but at the end of the day, you still are your own bank. That was what it was intended to be so that you can have access and control your stuff, which I think is truly at its core. 

00:14:38:08 – 00:14:57:08

Richard Carthon: And, you know, the way that you’ve built out a lot of ShapeShift sounds like a lot of foundational principles of power to the people and breaking away from traditional finance. You know, where is a lot of that, like, driven for you, like, what makes you, like, so adamant on like, bringing this type of decentralization to the world? 

00:14:59:00 – 00:16:05:02

Erik Voorhees: Yes. That is the question, right? The whole purpose of Bitcoin being created in the first place was to give financial sovereignty to individuals, meaning that individuals could access the money system at the base layer and that no one had any special privileges over anyone else, that all of humanity has the same level playing field when it comes to that money system that they are using. That is only maintained when you can maintain the decentralization. So, once you start using centralized applications, especially those which are holding your funds, you get pulled into the same regulatory environment which banks exist in and you get pulled into all of the same paradigm that the banks live with, including complete surveillance of everyone’s financial transactions, including the ability to censor people because you don’t like what they’re saying or doing, including the blocking of entire countries of people, because that country is not in agreement with the government of the country that you’re in. 

00:16:05:26 – 00:16:47:17

Erik Voorhees: So, if you want political money, you know, you already have the Fiat currency of your country that you can use. If you want a political money, if you want neutral mathematics-based money, then of course, that has to be Bitcoin and it has to be Cryptocurrencies. So, as a Crypto app, ShapeShift is best when it can maintain those same principles. So, when we were an intermediary and we had to impose KYC on people, we are moving away from the ethos of what Crypto is supposed to be about. So, by integrating decentralized exchanges and now today, by becoming completely decentralized as an organization, it lets us be best aligned with the ethos of Crypto. 

00:16:49:05 – 00:17:20:18

Richard Carthon: Which is exactly what you want it to be, right? It’s going back to just like you said, the origins of Bitcoin, why it was made in the first place and fulfilling what that was intended to be. I’m more curious from an organization standpoint now that you are, you know, becoming a Dao and truly going to everything being outsourced. You know, what do you think are going to be some of the initial hurdles and challenges that you’re going to have to overcome, but is once they’re overcome, it’s going to be this beautiful thing that like, has decentralization working at its core?

00:17:22:04 – 00:18:05:12

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. There are a lot of challenges and so, like ShapeShift been around for seven years, we have 65 employees, we have shareholders, we have, you know, a million contracts with various vendors. We pay taxes, we have relationships with various regulators and governments. And there is this whole, you know, massive infrastructure that gets set up when you build a company, especially after seven years. We have to dismantle all of that, and it has to be done carefully. You know, like, we can’t screw over any stakeholders, we have to treat our shareholders correctly, we have to treat our employees correctly, we have to treat our users correctly. We can’t piss off a bunch of regulators, so, we have to talk with them and like, let them know what we’re doing and like, work on that. 

00:18:05:18 – 00:18:54:06

Erik Voorhees: We have to be very careful about how we handle our tax situation, so, that the assets that we dissolve out to shareholders get taxed at like, the wrong rate because we did something in the wrong order or in the wrong jurisdiction. So, this is a process that will take months. You know, we have to figure out how to go from an environment where we have W2 employees that work, you know, a normal nine to five kind of job to one in which no one is an employee, and everyone just has Fox tokens. And they have their own incentives there, they set their own schedules, they can be from anywhere in the world. They might work all the time for ShapeShift, they might work, you know, two hours a week for ShapeShift. It’s a much more fluid kind of arrangement. And so, we have a lot of organizational learning on how to do that well, but that’s what we’re going to be doing over the coming months. 

00:18:55:00 – 00:19:19:26

Richard Carthon: I’ll tell you what, you figured out how to use that model. I see a lot of companies moving to it. It allows for freedom, it allows for setting your own schedule, like you said, and it can allow for a lot more autonomy to move quicker. I’m just curious, so, in the US, one of the states that is getting very, very friendly to Dao’s, I believe, is Wyoming. Would you be happening to be setting up out there? 

00:19:21:06 – 00:20:05:28

Erik Voorhees: So, we were talking about this internally a few days ago. First of all, I applaud Wyoming for being absolutely the best state in the United States for Crypto business generally. Hands down, New York is the worst, Wyoming is the best. So, they did a good job with that. However, they have this strange Dao registration rule there where a Dao could register in Wyoming. There are some edge cases where that could be useful, especially as ShapeShift transitions to being decentralized. There are still centralized things that would benefit from a corporate entity structure for a period of time. But ultimately Dao means Dao.

00:20:06:00 – 00:20:06:15

Richard Carthon: Right.

00:20:06:17 – 00:20:36:04

Erik Voorhees: That like, you do not have a jurisdiction. So, a proper Dao does not have a jurisdiction in any place, regardless of how friendly that place is. It is established in the jurisdiction of the Internet. So, I think the Wyoming legislation is a little strange. I don’t see us having any interest in that. But I do want to say that Wyoming in general has put out a lot of really good legislation. And if a Cryptocurrency is setting up anywhere in the US, I mean, that’s the state they should go to. 

00:20:36:25 – 00:21:20:27

Richard Carthon: I agree. Extremely friendly. But like you said and that’s why I kind of wanted to bring it up, was how can you be decentralized yet still have some centralized autonomy in there? But I’m sure there’s ways to figure it out and even just like you said, as you’re setting it up, you still need to have some central structure. So, that might not be a bad place to have that set up while you’re kind of figuring out the rest. But, you know, thanks for expanding on that. But obviously, that is the biggest thing that y’all are currently working on for the road map is becoming a fully decentralized company after already becoming a fully decentralized exchange. If you have to take a bird’s eye view in it and you’re looking into the future, where do you see ShapeShift going into in five to 10 years? 

00:21:22:04 – 00:22:06:09

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. I see it growing into like the world’s Crypto interface, you know, and open source, multi chain, self-custody Crypto interface that anyone on the planet can use, and that’s a massive project, you know, something that a centralized team can’t really build. But people working all over the world on their various Crypto projects that want to integrate into that kind of platform can do that much more effectively. So, yeah, I see it getting huge and hopefully by becoming huge and maintaining fidelity to self-custody and open-source principles, ShapeShift can really help carry the banner of what Bitcoin started, which is sovereignty over money, no matter who you are or where you are in the world. 

00:22:07:21 – 00:22:44:15

Richard Carthon: I think that’s great. And I mean, I’m definitely going to be watching it and a couple of things that I kind of just want to unpack more about you, because I think, you know, obviously with you leading the charge with all of this and truly having Bitcoin being at the core of your principle, would you consider yourself a Bitcoin maximalist or when you look at the greater scheme of like, what the rest of the Crypto world is trying to do, you know, where do you stand on the argument of there’s only one? So, obviously I’ve had some very intense conversations with Bitcoin maximalists in the past, also had some very constructive ones. And based on your answer that you’ve given in previous, I really enjoyed it, so, I think it’d be great to share with our audience. 

00:22:45:18 – 00:23:11:23

Erik Voorhees: Yeah. So, I used to be a Bitcoin maximalist, you know, probably from when I first found out about it until 2013, sometime in there. And I thought, you know, these other digital assets were just a distraction at best. At worst, you know, there’s lots of scams obviously. But why are people putting attention into these things when, like, we should be focused on the one most important project, which is Bitcoin? 

00:23:12:21 – 00:23:48:19

Erik Voorhees: And I came to the conclusion that that was a really naive view for a couple of reasons. One is a lot of digital assets and a lot of Blockchains are not trying to build sound money, they’re trying to build other parts of the financial ecosystem or even other things that aren’t financial at all. Like NFTs, for example, are not trying to be money. So, they’re not just a distraction, they’re an entirely new application and branch of digital assets. And two, just as important, one of the most crucial principles of Bitcoin is decentralization. 

00:23:49:20 – 00:24:22:02

Erik Voorhees: I do not think you best serve decentralization by having one monolithic Blockchain that everything gets built on and that everything has to utilize with all of its restrictions and design decisions. There are a lot of attributes of every Blockchain, and there are tradeoffs made in those design decisions. Some of those trade-offs are good for certain users and not good for others. So, I think it’s really important that we have multiple Blockchains and many assets built on these multiple Blockchains. Now, that does not mean that I think every project out there is good or important. 

00:24:22:13 – 00:24:22:28

Richard Carthon: Yeah.

00:24:23:00 – 00:24:24:22

Erik Voorhees: The vast majority are garbage, right? 

00:24:24:28 – 00:24:25:13

Richard Carthon: Yeah.

00:24:25:15 – 00:24:51:10

Erik Voorhees: Like, 90, 95, 98 percent of all the coins out there I would never touch, I would never own. So, people need to have a healthy degree of skepticism. But there are at least a dozen Blockchains that are highly valued, highly valuable, and which I believe are complementary to each other. And I think, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum have grown together. They have not grown at each other’s expense, and they do different things well. So, I’m a supporter of both. 

00:24:52:02 – 00:25:13:14

Erik Voorhees: I think the maximalist’s religion is very harmful, especially to the degree that it becomes highly toxic and is just about tearing down people because they’re working on projects that aren’t on your chain. I think that’s a bunch of nonsense and I’m glad that people see through that and build where they see productive technology they can build on. 

00:25:14:08 – 00:25:50:29

Richard Carthon: I agree, and I appreciate that insight. And that’s why I wanted you to speak on it, because you know, where there are some really good points to Bitcoin maximalism, just like you said, there’s a case point for everything. There’s something greater here than just one lens. And the other thing that I kind of wanted to just unpack with that, like you said, you know, 95 to 97 percent, you yourself potentially would never get into it and I understand that as well. When I really started paying attention into the Crypto landscape, there was less than 1,000 projects, you know, 2017, 2018 and now that’s 10x. It’s over 10,000 Crypto projects out there, right? Cryptocurrencies, but they’re startups. 

00:25:51:05 – 00:26:46:18

Richard Carthon: And if you think about startup land, 90, 95 percent are going to fail, but the five percent that don’t, man, it’s going to be amazing. But the ones that are going to fail are going to also help create something and start the foundation for the future ones that are going to continue to thrive and do well. And the work that they do is still important, except for the rug-pools and the ones that are just absolute scam coins. But, you know, with that in mind, you know, as you look back and look at where Crypto is headed, so, we’ve had a lot of, you know, you’ve seen the first decade from you go to Ethereum, you have your platforms that are starting to be built and these ecosystems that are being built underneath them, then you have centralized finance that’s coming out, you have NFTs, all this stuff and now Daos are becoming more and more affluent out in the ecosystem as well. What do you think the thing that people should be paying attention to let’s call for the next one to three years that has your attention? 

00:26:49:10 – 00:27:47:02

Erik Voorhees: I think over the next one to three years people need to be fluent in multiple chains, and we’ll get used to applications that seamlessly integrate multiple chains. There’s really like an island phenomenon right now where you’re like you’re using Bitcoin or you’re in the Ethereum world and it’s a bunch of ERC 20s and then maybe you’ve branched off into, like Cosmos or Cardano or something. But these are all isolated projects. I think they are best when people can interact between them and use them for the use cases at which they most excel. But that’s a really hard design and engineering challenge that takes some time. So, hopefully over these next few years, that becomes easy and seamless. You know, certainly that’s what ShapeShift is trying to do. We’ve integrated lots of different chains and it’s the same experience regardless of the change in one place. Hopefully that will be a principle that others try to apply. 

00:27:47:28 – 00:28:21:17

Richard Carthon: No doubt. And it’s interesting that you bring that up, because in previous shows, I call like 2019, early 2020, the year of islands. So, you had all these companies that were being, or these projects that were being built during this bear market and they’re just building, building, building, and they’re building this really, really awesome island. But I really think that the really awesome projects that are going to win are the bridges, the projects that are trying to bridge everything together to make it work. So, you’re still going to have some really great islands that still do very well, but I think some bridges that are able to be built that truly connect the entire Crypto ecosystem are also going to be some home run. 

00:28:21:19 – 00:28:39:28

Richard Carthon: So, I appreciate you giving that insight. So, two final fun questions to kind of wrap things up. And, you know, I really appreciate everything you’ve shared up to this point. You’ve been in the game for 10 years now, if you could take all the knowledge you have right now and part two to three pieces of wisdom to yourself when you first started, what would you share? 

00:28:42:15 – 00:28:49:06

Erik Voorhees: Well, there is the obvious and lazy one, which is just like, this stuff will work, so, don’t ever sell any of it.

00:28:49:08 – 00:28:50:10

Richard Carthon: Yeah.

00:28:50:12 – 00:29:52:27

Erik Voorhees: You know, but that’s kind of the lazy answer. I think what I would tell myself is to really try to maintain fidelity to principle wherever you can, because that’s what’s fulfilling. Like in 2018, we felt that we had to betray our principles and build something that we were ethically opposed to, because otherwise we didn’t see how the business could proceed and I didn’t think that tearing down the business was the right answer. And that we didn’t have a lot of options then, but I think I wish I would have looked more and been a little more long-term thinking, like even if back in 2018 I had looked into some of the projects that today are highly scaled and likely, I would have realized, you know, at least a year earlier that we could have done some of the things that we’re doing now. But that’s kind of a scary thing is to like, completely change how a business works when it’s already up and running and established. 

00:29:53:12 – 00:29:53:27

Richard Carthon: Right.

00:29:53:29 – 00:30:01:17

Erik Voorhees: So, I don’t fear that anymore, but I think my younger self did. So, that’s probably what I would try to convey. 

00:30:01:19 – 00:30:46:00

Richard Carthon: Which is great and it’s a good lesson. But like you said, like it’s hard to pave the way and to be a pioneer in something that really hasn’t been made yet. But when you have a conviction that this is the future and it will work and like, just like, a Hey guys, I know y’all think I’m crazy, but trust me, this is going to be okay. Even though your timeline was maybe three years later, you’re still pioneering a new way of getting these Crypto projects and even organizations fully decentralized. So, you know, kudos to you for starting it. It’s going to be a challenging road ahead, but you’re going to be able to create a path that is a lot more straightforward for future companies and organizations as well. So, you know, keep fighting a good fight. 

00:30:47:07 – 00:30:52:19

Erik Voorhees: Well, thank you. Yeah. Hopefully it will become a model and I’m sure we’ll make a million mistakes, and you know, we’ll try to share those as well. 

00:30:53:21 – 00:31:07:23

Richard Carthon: No doubt, man. Well, you know, I like to ask one final question to each of my speakers that come on the show and what I want to pose to you is what is a final thought that you want all the listeners here today to take away? 

00:31:09:26 – 00:31:53:08

Erik Voorhees: Well, final thought today is just that, because ShapeShift is opening, open sourcing, this is now really a community project. So, if you want to get involved either for ideological reasons, because you like our mission or for financial reasons, because you want to earn money by helping to work on this project, find our Discord, the ShapeShift Discord. And we are just starting this process, so, we want to invite everyone to participate in it. And with the Fox tokens, you can govern how we unfold and obviously there’s a lot of work to do and a lot of elements of these systems. So, we’re opening up to anyone that wants to get involved and if you’re a self-starter and interested in that, then we welcome you. 

00:31:54:02 – 00:32:03:05

Richard Carthon: Excellent. Well, definitely appreciate you spending some time with us. And I know you just shouted out Discord, but what are other ways that people can either connect with you and learn more about ShapeShift? 

00:32:04:05 – 00:32:12:14

Erik Voorhees: Yeah, just kind a ShapeShift.com. Make sure you’ve checked if you’re eligible for the air drop, like that was the largest one in history today, it was over 1,000,000 recipients, so.

00:32:12:16 – 00:32:13:11

Richard Carthon: Awesome. 

00:32:13:16 – 00:32:22:21

Erik Voorhees: Chances are you might be in it. And yeah, you know, everything that’s relevant will be on our home page over at ShapeShift. And you can find me @ErikVoorhees on Twitter. 

00:32:23:20 – 00:32:31:07

Richard Carthon: Perfect. Well, Erik, thank you again so much for coming on the show and dropping all the great knowledge. And of course, for everyone listening, stay Crypto Current.