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The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below.

00:00:16:22 – 00:00:39:15

Richard Carthon: Tell everyone Welcome to another episode of Crypto Current, your host here, Richard. And today I got a very special one for you. We have a special guest all the way out in the UK working on a really cool exchange. But also we’re going to recap a lot of things that have happened in this year and things you should be looking forward to in 2023. We have Robert Callie Naro, who is the CSO at MIT. Drew. How are you doing today?

00:00:41:10 – 00:00:44:10

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Hey, you’re good. Good to have you. I’m well, thank you.

00:00:45:03 – 00:00:53:03

Richard Carthon: Yeah, well, I’m glad you’re doing well. We got plenty to unpack today. But first, I want to start with just a little bit of background on yourself. He does. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:00:54:28 – 00:01:14:23

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Yes. I mean, I’ve come from a financial services background, and consulting background was in banking for a period of time. And then in terms of investments, hedge funds, private equity and that wealth in that space and that and yeah, that’s that’s really me, to be honest. That’s the last ten, ten, 15 years of my life.

00:01:16:00 – 00:01:25:29

Richard Carthon: So using all that experience, you eventually start working over at a true Singaporean exchange. But can you just tell us a little bit about the exchange and which are currently working on?

00:01:27:12 – 00:01:53:17

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Yeah. So Be True is a Singaporean based cryptocurrency exchange. It’s been going since 2018. A strong team of dedicated people involved in it and about 150 of us in total. And it’s an asset as an exchange. It’s got 2050 currencies available and there are options. It’s quite a conservative exchange, which is put in good stead this year

00:01:55:02 – 00:02:25:01

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: in a very well run. And, you know, it’s had its issues and growing pains, but fortunately years ago. So I think that’s that spirit and in a good place for today and where it finds itself now and the work that I do with Be True is really looking at. How we better engage externally. How we improve what we do as an exchange. And then ultimately how how how the exchange diversifies, changes and grows going forward. So that’s the remit that I sort of have with that.

00:02:26:04 – 00:02:37:26

Richard Carthon: Well, thanks for explaining that. And what you’re doing is very critical, especially in a year like 2023, after coming off a year like 2021. So what do you think are some of the biggest challenges that we’re faced this year?

00:02:40:11 – 00:02:54:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I think that there’s been a number. Right. And I think the one of the clearest ones for me in looking at it from an sort of an exchange point of view and let’s start with the worst possible collapse, is that,

00:02:56:22 – 00:03:29:12

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: you know, that moment of thinking, well, this isn’t good. And the pain that’s been felt across the year and there’s been a number of significant collapses of funds and then of exchanges, too. But I think it’s something that we have to look at those individually and not just as a market from a market sense. And I think, you know, without to exclude as a fraud, this is a fraud. With the three hour account, people in it become overleveraged.

00:03:29:18 – 00:04:06:28

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: The bets have gone against it so long, the market gone. Sure. And so it’s been it’s been crunched. And then Gemini and Defi have been affected by the fact that they were trying to borrow money from FDX and see that money was no longer available, wasn’t there to be given out in the first place. So I think, you know, one thing I would like to say is it’s important that the exchanges that have continued and do continue now is that the role is to provide access to a market and to provide a market as a place and a means of exchange, not be the market betting against proprietary trading over leveraged over lending.

00:04:07:00 – 00:04:39:26

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So I think that that distinction is really important and not to sugarcoat it, but the point of an exchange is to provide access, provide good custody of assets and good liquidity. So a good number of investors and users using the platform that you have that enables you to be somewhere that people want to come and trade and trust and trust. This just has been broken. So, you know, you are now on a journey of rebuilding trust. So I think that those are some of the key ones.

00:04:39:28 – 00:04:43:20

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I think being better custodians of assets is clearly very important.

00:04:45:23 – 00:04:58:24

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: It’s important to remember that this is a fairly young industry. It’s not that old. I can go into more detail on that and talk about that in more and more detail. And then also, I guess there’s clearly been a.

00:05:01:13 – 00:05:24:15

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: You have to recognize and appreciate that despite what people thought about crypto not being tied to the real economy, it is clearly there is a sense of both macro and micro movement affecting the world of crypto, whether it’s disposable income for buying risky assets, whether it’s interest rates, offering better returns, and that people have enough flight safety. And that’s that’s.

00:05:26:17 – 00:05:31:25

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Yeah, that’s always that’s been something that’s affected the equity markets too, not just crypto markets. I think that’s important to.

00:05:33:03 – 00:06:07:22

Richard Carthon: I think so. And I think you cover a lot of good bases, especially as it relates to exchanges. You are there to provide markets, not to be them. And I think unfortunately, like you said, Texas, unfortunately, was a fraud. And as you look to some other exchanges that are now out there, there is been a call to more accountability, to more transparency, and to make sure that it can’t happen again. And if there is some fraudulent behavior, that it can be snipped out pretty quickly and it can get in front of because, as you said, trust has been lost across not just the industry but outside industries coming to look.

00:06:07:24 – 00:06:22:00

Richard Carthon: And so we have to be rebuilding what is as bad as some things have gone. I think there’s been a lot of positives. So I think there’s been both pros and cons to the year, you know, What do you think are some of the biggest pros and cons that people can take away from 2020 to.

00:06:24:21 – 00:06:34:15

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So I think, you know, not not not skewed together or avoiding the losses that people have felt. I think it’s also that case of.

00:06:37:25 – 00:06:56:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: You know, this is a. This is an opportunity to mature. Right. And to become more grown up, to look up what how this industry works and the areas that it doesn’t work and improve. And, you know, just picking one area for a moment that’s bigger than Wally’s or crypto wallets.

00:06:58:13 – 00:07:32:01

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: There are two elements to a wallet is what you’ve got and fit that you’re holding that you could you could invest. And there’s your actual holdings of what you have invested. I think one part of that should be safe and secure. So the money that you hold in fear that that should be safe because it’s external, the exchange, it has a monetary value beyond the exchange itself. And then the assets that you’re actually trading, the actual crypto that you are invested in. Use that as a risk asset. So if you are holding the same in equities, then that’s that’s a pretty important point.

00:07:32:05 – 00:07:49:00

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So making that distinction, I think coming back to the point of how is that a positive as well? Exchanges have realized that there needs to be that maturity around holding assets, so otherwise people won’t trust you. So security has to improve systems have to improve,

00:07:50:27 – 00:07:58:15

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: policies have to improve, and people need to be more mindful of what they lend out. So I think that’s that is a good thing when you mature. That’s a good thing.

00:08:00:23 – 00:08:11:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Beyond that know this is still a growing industry. You’ve got 300 million crypto investors globally, but you’ve got 5 billion people on the Web. So, you know.

00:08:13:10 – 00:08:45:14

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: The market penetration still runs very small. Right? I think that’s the that’s the point to make that the last one is people. So I would say some commentators have said it’s over for crypto. It’s not going to work. It’s all finished. You know, we’ll all go to zero. But if you look at what’s actually happened on a practical sense, you’ve seen people move that crypto into cold wallets rather than exchanges, which makes sense because there’s a fear around what might happen to other exchanges. And you know, one week we saw 30 exchanges disappear.

00:08:47:03 – 00:09:17:15

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So that makes sense. And then you’ve also seen a flight towards Stablecoins. So people aren’t necessarily leaving crypto. So there they interact with it until they feel it’s a good time to start trading again. And so I think that’s that’s you know, people haven’t said this is over. They’re saying, I need to take stock of what I’ve got. I need to secure it in a way that I feel confident and safe. And then the second to that is I don’t want to necessarily be in some of the coins that people haven’t heard of. I do want to be in more recognized stablecoins.

00:09:17:17 – 00:09:53:10

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I think that’s the. As a larger point because we have seen people leave the market exchanges in particular is that there are fewer exchanges around. And to be clear, there are 260 recognised exchanges globally. So that’s a lot. It’s an awful lot. So that consolidation. If we if we continue to see more consolidation, what will really see is liquidity improve because there will be fewer exchanges with more people trading on them. I think that is a positive thing for investors to to be to be aware of and to be mindful of.

00:09:54:09 – 00:10:26:04

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I think that in the last thing I would say is beyond it is that the people that really want this industry to grow and succeed recognize that. For it to do. So, it really has to speed up how it becomes more integrated into the digital economy, because if not, it’s just an idea, right? And so it has to speed up in the same way that people like Tesla is just as producing cars. But not that it hasn’t met the demand yet. So you’re betting on the future of where that company will be or where that coin will be. So that’s so I think it’s important to make those distinctions.

00:10:27:13 – 00:11:02:15

Richard Carthon: I think those are all really good points and one that I want to kind of hammer home is the whole concept of crypto in its first place was to give power back to the people so that you could take care of your own cryptos, have the power, be back in your hands, and have more freedom than luxury to do what you want with your assets. And I think a lot of people who got into. Krypto unfortunately forgot that and got a really felt safe with trusting some of these different entities who unfortunately weren’t necessarily doing the right things.

00:11:02:20 – 00:11:29:13

Richard Carthon: And you got the point of like cold storage, and there’s been a mass shift to cold storage, which as a con is that unfortunately some exchanges have failed. Some places where you could go and put in your money and hopefully be getting API back where now. And unfortunately now you can’t get any of it back for the 10 to 20% that you were earning on it because it was, you know, on this exchange, it really taught people how to protect themselves, how to really

00:11:31:16 – 00:11:47:04

Richard Carthon: make sure that they had their assets under their control. And I think that is a pro out of a con of the whole. Challenge that has happened this year. And I think as people get more secure as as more of these exchanges are doing things and putting things in places to keep their

00:11:48:20 – 00:12:17:13

Richard Carthon: different people and customers who are using them more safe and secure, that is going to do nothing but help the future of people that are coming into this industry. And so I think that’s going to continue to propel the future of the industry forward. But. To to kind of drive this in a different direction. The crypto industry has been working on a lot this year. It’s been really overshadowed by a lot of the negatives. How do you what are some of the biggest developments that you think happened this year and how will that carry over into 2023?

00:12:19:24 – 00:12:51:01

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So, I mean, if you look at geopolitical issues that the cost of energy has been really expensive this year. We all know that on our bills it’s a high cost of oil and gas. So there’s also been in the fact that on a mining, it’s been expensive. I think in another sense, even when market reverberations were happening, you were still seeing, you know, a fairly strong number of initial coin offerings. And I think, you know, was that in some sense should be celebrated on the other side.

00:12:51:08 – 00:13:22:03

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: You know, what you’re losing is a sense of rarity and scarcity, which affects the price discovery. So, you know, people who think about Bitcoin think about it like so many Bitcoin, and that’s what makes it rare and that’s what makes it valuable. Well, that’s fair enough. Stuff that someone’s view. So I think when when it comes to exchanges, I think you have to look at some of those coins or some of those projects depending on how you view them. Think, well, hold on. This has been around for three years or five years or ten years. It’s not really done anything. It’s not going anywhere.

00:13:23:14 – 00:13:42:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So why is that? Is it time for us to delist? Is it time for us to say, no, It is a good project. But what we really need to understand is where it’s going. And that’s the view that I have, is I think we’ll see far more stablecoins come into the market next year than a fear backed or commodity backed.

00:13:45:05 – 00:14:20:03

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I’m not going to get into the intricacies of which will be valuable, which won’t be, but I think we’ll see more of them because people say, I understand the underlying asset or I understand what this product trying to achieve or where it could integrate maybe in a particular sector or where the use cases is there. So I think that’s one of the the developments that you will see as we move into the next year. I mean, clearly, rebuilding trust is a fundamental element across not just exchanges, but actually coins too.

00:14:20:05 – 00:14:38:27

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I think now a lot of coins can be projects that you don’t necessarily necessarily know who was who was or was behind it. And that needs to change. There’s transparency needed on that level, too. So I think that that is one area that coins themselves can, can can improve and change.

00:14:40:15 – 00:14:51:26

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: We’ve got few exchanges. I would I would think. I don’t hope, but I wish it on anyone. But I think you will see fewer exchanges next year that some of these exchanges that have got really small followings.

00:14:54:18 – 00:15:15:17

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: They just won’t have the critical mass to to keep going. So, you know, you need that trading volume. I mean to for example be true is is 12th in rankings for derivatives and futures trading. So I mean it’s like we’re we’re modestly sized exchange but in some areas like ripple with a third biggest

00:15:17:06 – 00:15:48:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: trader by volume. So you know depending on what metric we use, we can be something that we use a lot or something that people don’t use that much. So I think that that comes into into play, too. I think investors are bruised. So there’s a there’s an opportunity and an opportunity and a need to take stock. But if I may, one thing I would like to say is that that the pain that’s been felt in crypto this year isn’t just a crypto issue. If you look in the broader macro economy with Tesla, for example, this year it’s down 70% year to date. That’s massive.

00:15:48:23 – 00:16:01:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: You think? Well, that’s that’s huge. Yeah, that’s that was the world’s second or third, third, third largest company by market cap of the Saudi Aramco, which just had a brilliant year because of oil and then.

00:16:03:17 – 00:16:34:11

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So I think that that’s that’s important to use is just one metric. You’ve seen $35 trillion wiped off of equity markets globally. Right. And that doesn’t include private equity markets, credit and private credit markets and real estate markets being marked appropriately for where markets are today. So if you include all of those, it’s been a really poor year for assets across the board with the exception of commodities. Right. Who’ve had a stonking year in the main.

00:16:34:28 – 00:16:35:13

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: So.

00:16:37:04 – 00:16:55:28

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: If you read the newspapers, if you read Bloomberg’s, and yet he’s of this world and I read those, I enjoy reading them. You would think, Oh, it’s just all a crypto problem. That’s not the case. This is a broader issue. It’s really the disposable income that people have seen has an impact on how much crypto demand there is.

00:16:57:27 – 00:17:29:29

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: I think if you look at the longevity of something. So, you know, I want to trade with you today. Some facts, right? It’s important to be factual. So, I mean, Bitcoin is up 5000 or 6,300% since 2015, but it’s down 61% this year. Salada is up nearly 700% since 2020, but is down 84% this year. Their aim is up nearly 10,000% since 2016, but it’s down 64% this year.

00:17:30:11 – 00:18:04:21

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Then you think, okay, well, those are big moves. Alphabet, Google, which we all know we’ve all used, is up 3,000% since 2004, is down 41% this year. Netflix 20 20% up since 2002. But down 54% this year. So please, not you, but I don’t think anyone can say this is just a crypto issue is no assets have fallen across the board. The exception of bonds and whatnot. So those are some of the big takeaways I would say I would say are important tonight.

00:18:05:10 – 00:18:36:05

Richard Carthon: Those are really good points and something to re-emphasize, and I’m glad you brought it up as actually a direction I was going to go next because you brought it up that there’s economic in the indicators and things that are happening that are also affecting crypto. Obviously, a lot of what happened to crypto was self-induced. Black Swan crypto specific events. But it doesn’t mean that the regular markets also don’t impact what’s going on in the crypto markets as well. And it’s been a tough year all across the board.

00:18:37:02 – 00:19:07:15

Richard Carthon: In 2022, both crypto and the world economics. So as we look ahead, right, what do you think are big lists of big lessons that people in crypto can learn from this so that they can take it with them into 2023 and into the future, and to make sure that you don’t just keep making the same mistakes because unfortunately, like a year ago, you know, before we got on the show, I was talking about how, you know, a year ago people were sitting around the Christmas table talking about, Oh, I got another crypto this year and I’m up X amount and this is awesome.

00:19:07:20 – 00:19:14:01

Richard Carthon: And now same conversation a year later probably isn’t the same. So what do you think are the big lessons that people can take away?

00:19:16:14 – 00:19:39:25

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Yeah. I mean, clearly, there’s been some some fraudulent activity and mismanagement. Right. And I guess one of the you know, one of the takeaways is to think, well, there’s been some excellent business case studies in investment strategy, how to do it and how not to do it. And then also in terms of business mismanagement and management, how do we learn from that? How do we improve?

00:19:42:05 – 00:20:34:11

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: How do we become more stable? How do we leverage or leverage? These are important questions for exchanges. Just being purely thinking about where be true operates. Clearly transparency is is important and people will talk about fruits and preserves. And I think proof of reserve is an interesting and useful concept, But I think actually proof of leverage is probably more important if you know how much leverage if you got rather than just the reserves that you have. And in the same way that an investment bank has leverage ratios, that would probably be more valuable than just proving the reserves that you have and also which in which reserves do you hold you in usdc coin or you in Bitcoin, Which is it or you in something that people have not heard that much about? So I think those are some of the lessons learned.

00:20:34:24 – 00:20:39:04

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Clearly, resiliency, you know, for exchanges. Does that need for resiliency

00:20:40:22 – 00:20:41:07

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: and

00:20:42:18 – 00:21:15:09

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: being good at being good actors. Right. I think either you have to be an exchange that people trust and want to deal with and that that frankly, comes down to the people that you have around how candid you are about where you’re at and the things you can improve on and ultimately where you’re going, what your what your hopes and dreams are as an exchange or as a coin or as another, and that another element of the digital economy. So I think those are some factors that people I think below it, everyone has to grow up.

00:21:15:21 – 00:21:37:25

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Everyone has to mature a little bit and be just be better, be more, be better, and then see where this develops and moves. Because at the moment investors are thinking, Oh, I want to see how this pans out. So for those that are still invested in it and dealing with it day to day, it’s incumbent upon them to to drive it forward in a positive way.

00:21:39:15 – 00:22:10:12

Richard Carthon: I think those are really good takeaways. One that I’m just going to reemphasize, which I think is a really big takeaway on the year, like you were saying, was the importance of proof of leverage. The biggest issue that came out of crypto crypto itself has not failed. It’s unfortunately the businesses and the centralized aspect of people being greedy and overleveraging themselves in their traditional markets. You have governments that can step in and say, Hey, well, we’ll bail you out in crypto. You don’t have that flaw. When things when things hit the floor and it’s going all the way down, you can’t there’s nothing to stop it.

00:22:10:17 – 00:22:42:28

Richard Carthon: And. Where people need to continue to protect themselves in this industry is to figure out how can they deleverage themselves, but also protect themselves in a way that they can be confident in the future of what they have going on, but also know that their assets are safe, but also know when to if you know from a trading aspect, when to take profit because something that could last for the 2020 to 2021 was a really good run. Hopefully people took some profit. If they didn’t, they’re probably hurting and not feeling great right now, but it’s all important lessons on.

00:22:44:00 – 00:23:14:23

Richard Carthon: How do you deleverage yourself? So a lot of the companies that unfortunately struggled when things were going really great the last two years, what you do, you try to make more, try to make more and make more. And because they overleveraged themselves when unfortunately things start to turn south, they went extremely far south very quickly. And it was because they didn’t do a good assessment around the risks, de-risking it and making sure that they weren’t overleveraged. So I think that’s a really good point. And the question I kind of wrap up with is we’re coming to a crypto winter.

00:23:15:11 – 00:23:31:06

Richard Carthon: It’s it’s kind of been long sustained, I think could be here for a while. But I would love to hear your opinion on, you know, is there any chance that this crypto winter will reshape or influence the economic sector And what is it going to take for us to start to get on the other side of this?

00:23:33:19 – 00:24:09:00

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: The story is already a question. I think, you know, at the moment, because of interest rates being high, you know, the US, Europe and UK because of assets having fallen in value. You know, you’ve got less disposable income around and then you’ve got some assets that are viewed as a better inflation hedge, you know, oil, gas, gold. People have gone into that trade and you’ve seen that in equity markets, too. People have gone for real assets, you know, commodities on some levels, real estate.

00:24:11:14 – 00:24:13:13

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Consumer staples say food.

00:24:15:15 – 00:24:44:26

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Things like that. So you’ll you’ll start to see offshoots, I think, to just take on Bitcoin for a moment. You know, it’s in the UK, it’s about £30,000. And so but it’s been around that for a few weeks. So it feels to me as if that may have, you know, near its bottom. And that’s, that’s, it’s hit its floor. And I think, you know, again, to go back to, you know, the flight towards Stablecoin Stablecoins and

00:24:46:21 – 00:24:47:26

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: and also around.

00:24:51:07 – 00:25:25:27

Robert Quartly-Janeiro: Around coal storage. You know, people are waiting for that timing to come back. So, you know, I think in the next three, four months of next year, I think you’ll start to see the emergence of people thinking, okay, well, now picking on ourselves for a be true who’s been here? It’s been through the crypto winter. We’re now in the spring. How are things looking? How are things developing? What should piqued my interest. Because if you can, I think in general, if people can get over this period of time where trading volumes have decreased, then I think fundamentally what you’re dealing with is probably a good exchange rate.

00:25:26:02 – 00:26:05:03

Richard Carthon: So I think that there’s some things to be mindful of. And I’m like, Richard, I’ll have you come on another time and talk to you about the macro microeconomic. I’m sure we can do a whole show on that. But I think it’s about that balancing the risk and reward and the time market timing. So I think as we as we tend to fully enter 2023, you know, people will be looking around. And as long as we don’t have another big exchange collapse or, you know, more fraud, then I think fundamentally, you know, you might start to see the offshoots of green shoots coming through Bitcoin.

00:26:05:08 – 00:26:07:12

Richard Carthon: Okay, cool. It’s now time for me to go back.

00:26:09:15 – 00:26:43:12

Richard Carthon: I think that’s a really good way to look at it. And I think that. There’s still a lot more to come. Just between the macro that’s going on and like you said, we can definitely unpack a lot just on that subject alone. But. What it’s going to take for us to continue to move on to the other side of the current market environment is getting people to build the trust back into crypto and to seeing it as a opportunity and one that they can feel safe in entering. Because right now I feel that a lot of people lost the faith in it being a safe.

00:26:43:28 – 00:27:16:13

Richard Carthon: But for the people that are in crypto, like we know what’s up, we’ve been through the bear market before. We know that there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. It’s just surviving this moment. And I think a lot of people in companies right now in Web3 are in survival mode. So hopefully we can get out of survival mode and get back into thriving. But I always like to wrap up with a couple of fun questions and one that I always like to bring up is with all the information that you’ve learned through the years of being in this industry. If you could go impart one or two pieces of wisdom to yourself when you were just getting started, what would you tell yourself?

00:27:18:17 – 00:27:22:16

Richard Carthon: Well, I think the first thing to say is, you know, crypto is a is a marathon, not a spread.

00:27:24:15 – 00:27:59:07

Richard Carthon: You know, you’ve got to look at where you think this is going and why you want to be part of it. And if you really believe in a digital economy, that’s beyond. Yeah, I think that’s the first thing to say. I mean, let’s not forget the Internet took ten years to take off beyond just being information pages. And so it took ten years for people to really understand what the Internet could do and what websites could do. So there’s a there’s a time horizon, there’s a learning horizon to all of these things, to every technology.

00:27:59:15 – 00:28:34:05

Richard Carthon: You know, it takes time to get to me, to get to know it, to understand it, to make sense of it, and then to really. So really see where it can go. And I think the second thing I would say and I’ve sort of semi bought this today because I read Merryn Somerset Webb’s comment in Bloomberg today and she said, Well, why would you buy a stock? And you know, it is truth made simple. You don’t buy a stock for three reasons. And the first reason is if it’s capable of producing an income. Well, lots of companies that are listed do not in any way generate income.

00:28:34:15 – 00:29:06:29

Richard Carthon: They offer no dividend value at all, all future value. So Tesla Rivian a car company you can tell Aston Martin, and none of them really they they generate cash, but they don’t make any money as they profit. So on the second one is it can be useful to has utility value. So you think, okay well you let’s pick on gold. Yes. Okay. It has an industrial application, but fundamentally doesn’t do lots of really expensive paperwork. Right. It’s just the least reactive method we’ve got going, which makes it valuable.

00:29:07:12 – 00:29:41:22

Richard Carthon: Doing well. Look, utility value, right? Yes or no? The third the third one, which she discussed, was a significant number of people thinking it has value in some other reason or a conspiracy value. I step back from that and I thought, well, with my economics hat on for a moment. Well, that said, Paul, you know, you could say, well, that’s how some people view crypto. It’s just something that people think will have value at some for some other reason at some point in the future. I think a lot of stocks are like that. So I thought, well, what about artwork? You know, artwork has no practical utility, Right.

00:29:42:00 – 00:30:08:27

Richard Carthon: Or memorabilia. But but if they’re seen as value valuable, we perceive them as rare and as valuable, but they’re not income generating assets. So I’m sorry, I’ve given you a very long winded answer, but I think they useful answers in terms of what I have learned from from working within and looking at and studying and looking to improve how crypto crypto exchanges and particularly. Get better at what you do.

00:30:09:29 – 00:30:46:04

Richard Carthon: And I think that’s a good answer. And then to to reemphasize, it’s a it’s not a it’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon. I think a lot of people, for whatever reason, think that you can get into crypto and get crypto rich overnight. Whereas if you look at most stocks and people getting into a lot of these, you have a longer term horizon. But for some reason you get into crypto and you think I’m supposed to be a millionaire in two weeks. So having a longer term horizon, having a plan, etc. works, but then also looking at what is value. And I think a lot of people also come into crypto just buying something that they either heard on TV or whatever without an understanding like what is it actually trying to accomplish? Most cryptocurrencies are blockchain startups.

00:30:46:09 – 00:31:16:12

Richard Carthon: What do we know about most startups? 90% of them fail. Back when I was looking in 2018 into the space, there was only about 4000 cryptos. There’s over 20,000 now. 20,000 cryptos aren’t going to make it. So you have to try to find the projects and the teams that are working on stuff that makes sense. So going back to, you know, I think that was a really timely quote that you shared. So appreciate you sharing that. But I think those are two really good things to to bring home. But to fully bring us home. What is a final thought that you want to leave with all the listeners today?

00:31:20:05 – 00:31:22:01

Richard Carthon: Yeah, I think. A final thought.

00:31:26:16 – 00:31:28:10

Richard Carthon: Final thought. Sorry. Me? Sorry.

00:31:30:19 – 00:32:02:12

Richard Carthon: I think just be be rational. Will very reasonable. I like looking at the the macro because it can inform what you’re doing and how you’re trying to improve. And you know, 75, 80% of the market cap of crypto is held within 2025 points. So the rest of them are really all bets on the future and you never know what’s going to succeed and what’s not. So just be careful, be mindful about what you’re doing and don’t bet the house on this stuff.

00:32:02:22 – 00:32:36:06

Richard Carthon: Be careful. Just if you read of people having experienced a lot of pain, financial pain, and that’s sad to read. Right. And I think people forget that that behind crypto as an idea, there are people like you, like me and others who fundamentally want this to succeed. But at the same time, that can get lost when you’ve got journals saying, oh, you know, SBF is an awful person and look how fraudulent he’s been. And yeah, sure, he needs to answer for this thing. Sure. But there are others like yourself, like myself, who were not bad actors or good people.

00:32:36:28 – 00:33:08:11

Richard Carthon: And, you know, we don’t control we can’t control every facet element of it. So I think the takeaway I would try to give to other people is just be mindful of what you’re doing and really research what you’re interested in and how you think this is going to work. Because if you if you don’t understand it, ask others to help you and to advise you. Because, you know, people ask me sometimes, which they say, What coins do you hold, Rob? And I say, I never tell anyone what I hold personally, because if I do, I’d be influencing you to then go and make decisions that have been influenced.

00:33:08:13 – 00:33:44:03

Richard Carthon: I don’t want to do that. I don’t want you to say, Wow, I made so much money on this or I made nothing on this at all. And your fault. That’s why I don’t talk about it. But I don’t want people to think, Oh, okay, well. Forbes Give me a view that must be must be a safe bet. You know, I’m like you, I like you, and I have things that I think will work and I have things that I think, you know, maybe not. So I just think just be be careful. But I think also be positive, be sanguine, think well, you know where we are today and where the global economy is today is not where it will be in two years, six months, 12 months, 24 months, 36 months.

00:33:45:15 – 00:33:57:09

Richard Carthon: The world is constantly changing, always evolving. And I’ve given you a very long winded answer, and I must stop because your show is going around the law and I never will. Oh, my God, this is going to go. So I’ll stop there. And I’m really pleased and thank you for having me.

00:33:58:02 – 00:34:20:26

Richard Carthon: Now. You got it, Robert. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for that very final thought. Be mindful, be good people. Be positive. We’re going to get through it. Whack me. We’re all going to make it. There are going to be some people that don’t, unfortunately. But we have to at least keep finding ways to learn these lessons so that we can thrive into the future. So, Robert, for people who want to learn more about be true and everything that you have going on, where ways that people could connect with you.

00:34:22:14 – 00:34:51:06

Richard Carthon: Yeah. So there’s there’s the website, there’s a really good website. We’ve got a really good Twitter following. So go to the official. Be true to be true. Official Twitter page is about 550,000 followers on there. So you’ll know you’ve got the right one when you get there. And then there’s a really strong telegram community again by 60,000 people. So we all the time. So just go to the official channels and engage with us there. That’s what we could be found.

00:34:52:00 – 00:34:57:27

Richard Carthon: Perfect. Well, again, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. And as always, for everyone listening, stay Cryptoquant.

00:34:59:25 – 00:35:23:11

Richard Carthon: Thank you for joining us for another episode of cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrencies is a cryptocurrency and blockchain education platform, bridging the gap between curious newcomers for just discovering the space and the thought leaders for shaping its future. All opinions expressed by Richard Carson, the current team and their guests on this show are exclusively their own opinions on this show, and any other crypto print production is exclusively for informational purposes.