One of the most unique experiences we had at the Miami Crypto Experience was our discussion with Joel Nagel on how to legally obtain a second citizenship to protect your crypto assets.
Joel Nagel is managing partner and founder of the international law firm Nagel & Associates LLC, specializing in international corporate strategy and legal structures. He is Chairman of Caye International Bank, and has served as ambassador to Austria, the United Nations in Vienna and to Croatia and Slovenia on behalf of the Belizean government.
Before founding Nagel & Associates, Joel worked for the U.S. federal government at the US Department of Commerce, in the office of Chief Counsel for International Commerce. Joel has served on the board of twenty plus corporations, and is a major backer of several philanthropic projects in Central America.
Website – https://www.joel-nagel.com/
The Global Wealth Fortress Report – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLz_hgckrwz7lRqHocxY2cOzMSJlTcooS
Twitter – https://twitter.com/nagellaw?lang=en
The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below.
00:00:20:29 – 00:00:43:18
Richard Carthon: Hey everyone, your boy, Richard Carthon here and of course, we have Steven Miller, we’re having another exciting day at the Miami Crypto Experience. One of the opening acts, if you will, was the lawyer here. Mr. Joel. We’re excited to be able to spend some time. He spit some outrageously amazing knowledge and I was like, we have to have a moment to just unpack a little bit of it. So, Joel, thank you so much for spending some time with us.
00:00:43:20 – 00:00:44:16
Joel Nagal: Thanks for having me today.
00:00:44:20 – 00:00:51:24
Richard Carthon: Yeah, man. Well, plenty of questions that we’re going to dive into, but one of the first ones that I always like to start with is just give us a little bit of background about yourself.
00:00:52:09 – 00:01:13:00
Joel Nagal: Well, I’m a lawyer, 56 years old. I’ve been practicing law for 32 years. A lot of people say, “Wow, you know, you’re, you know, with this law that you’re doing in the Crypto space, you’ve become this overnight success.” I said, “Yeah, well, it only took 32 years to become an overnight success. But our tagline of our firm is we represent US capital abroad.
00:01:13:02 – 00:01:47:17
Joel Nagal: So, we’re always working with mostly Americans, although we have other foreign clients as well, helping them accomplish whatever it is they want to accomplish outside the US, keeping in mind their business goals and objectives, their asset protection goals and objectives. But then also, you know, the tax consequences and things like that back in the US, because as an American, you can’t take your eye off that ball. So, we’ve really focused in that area for 32 years. You know, that’s the area that I wanted to be in when I first started practicing as a young lawyer. It was extremely slow getting started, but now, yes, the the phone rings all day, every day.
00:01:48:04 – 00:02:21:04
Joel Nagal: One of my friends said, “You know, Joel, it’s amazing you have an unlimited marketing budget that you don’t have to pay for” because, you know, essentially with all the crazy nonsense going on in Washington and the divisiveness and all of that, it causes so many people to reach out and look for somebody like me or somebody that does the same thing. I’ve lived and worked around the world. I have a big family of seven children that tell people the easiest thing I do all day is go to work and no plans to retire any time soon. I’m very happy with my work.
00:02:21:06 – 00:02:21:26
Richard Carthon: Love what you do.
00:02:21:28 – 00:02:40:12
Joel Nagal: And I love what I do, so. And I like helping people really. At the end of the day, that’s what we’re helping them. I have my own podcast called The Global Wealth Fortress Report, and I always end by saying, you know, I wish you health, I wish you happiness, and I wish you a wealth that can’t be taken away by others. That’s really the the core aspect of my practice.
00:02:40:14 – 00:03:13:26
Steven Miller: So, look, I think that’s a really great way to transition here, because I think that one of the most core elements of both your sessions, because, again, you led the keynote this morning and then you also had a session immediately after that where you were really diving into asset protection. And I think that our audience is probably thinking to themselves, well, I mean, asset protection that is more relevant to, you know, retail and the landscape that individuals are looking at from a loss prevention angle. But my question to you is, how does asset protection relate to the individual investor? Because I think that the novice out there may not necessarily see that connection.
00:03:14:07 – 00:03:54:00
Joel Nagal: Yeah, that’s a really great question. I think the easiest way to explain it is to use a sports analogy or sports metaphor, you know, trying to make money that’s offense, protecting what you have, that’s defense. And, you know, if you start, you know, I’m not here to give your viewers any investment tips or tell them how to make money, I’m trying to say, look, I want to help you make sure you keep what’s yours. I want you to be able to sleep at night. You know, if a lawsuit arises, if there’s currency devaluation, if there’s capital controls, lawsuits, divorce, whatever it is, you know, we want to try to protect you. And the best time to protect yourself is before you have a problem, not after you have a problem.
00:03:54:12 – 00:04:35:29
Joel Nagal: I get it a few times per month, I get a call from somebody, they describe some heinous situation. Of course, it’s never their fault, but, you know, a lawsuit has been filed and or charges have been, you know, are out there, that’s not the right time. I mean, you can actually cross the line between civil action and criminal action by doing that and a lawyer or an accountant or somebody that helps you can be pulled in is basically like an accomplice, get into something called a fraudulent conveyance. So, you don’t want to do that. You don’t even want to have to know what that is. You just want to you know, when the sun’s shining like it does a lot here in Miami, the skies are blue, that’s the time to protect yourself.
00:04:36:11 – 00:04:52:09
Richard Carthon: And on that, one of the things you started to get into immediately, that kind of perked my ears up that I had no idea about was the idea of citizenship elsewhere. So, you brought up a couple of different examples. I think one of them was in Panama. Can you kind of talk about some of those different types of examples?
00:04:52:11 – 00:05:21:09
Joel Nagal: Sure. I mean, classic asset protection. We’re talking about protecting wealth. Some of your, you know, viewers might say, “Well, I don’t really have that much, maybe I don’t need to worry about protecting, you know, this or that.” But everybody’s most precious asset is themselves. And, you know, one of the ways you can protect yourself is to have Plan B, Plan C. Plan D. You know, it could be simple. You could have a little vacation property in Costa Rica that maybe if things got bad, you could go there, whatever, you know?
00:05:21:11 – 00:06:02:03
Joel Nagal: It doesn’t have to be a complex strategy, but a lot of people, they want to get formal residences so that they, you know, they have a residency card, similar to a green card for people that come to the US that gives them the right to travel. And we’ve seen in the last year with COVID that the right to travel, you know, it shouldn’t be taken for granted. In fact, a lot of people’s right to travel was literally taken away. But if you had a residency, if you had a second passport or citizenship somewhere else, you could frequently leverage that to be able to go different places. So, I mean, over the last year, I’ve traveled back and forth across the Atlantic, I think eight times.
00:06:02:05 – 00:06:02:20
Richard Carthon: Wow.
00:06:02:22 – 00:06:40:18
Joel Nagal: And almost always on empty planes. And, you know, because the typical person can’t go, I have a residency in Europe, so for me, it’s like, Okay, here’s my US passport, here’s my residency card. And with that, I could travel. But that’s the reason why, again, before there’s a problem, you want to have that in your pocket. You know, people are saying, Oh, I want to get residency over there. Okay, well, now you have to wait for things to reopen because just to even go over and start the process, you’re basically in the camp of all the tourists. And the tourist, you know, travel is not really open yet to a lot of big parts of the world.
00:06:40:20 – 00:07:00:12
Richard Carthon: And I have one quick follow up question to that. Something that I think you brought up, was, you know, a lot of people try to I don’t want to say shun, but like, well, you know, why wouldn’t you want to be a US citizen? Why are you trying to go somewhere else? Why are you trying to take your money elsewhere? And a lot of people don’t bring up the conversation about the fact that people can spend a lot of money to be a US citizen. Can you kind of speak to that a little bit?
00:07:00:18 – 00:07:16:12
Joel Nagal: Yeah. I mean, look, it’s not like we’re a, you know, a Benedict Arnold or anything like that. I love America. I love being an American, but, you know, there’s nothing wrong with having a second citizenship, a third citizenship, a residency somewhere. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. It’s been around for a long time.
00:07:16:18 – 00:07:48:13
Joel Nagal: I think in Europe, it’s been commonplace. You know, you have a French mother, a Belgian father and you, you know, you’re born with both then you marry an Italian wife and you get a third, you know? It’s normal, it’s commonplace. Nobody really thinks that there’s something shifty about it. As you mentioned, the US itself has programs that are designed to expedite or speed up the process of becoming a green card holder and a citizen. And it’s really for large investors, the EB5 E2 visas,you know?
00:07:48:15 – 00:08:11:04
Joel Nagal: You make a substantial investment into the United States, and for that, you get an automatic green card. Nobody’s complaining about it or saying, Oh, let’s not let those people in because they can write big checks. The same thing goes the other way. Generally, the richer the country, you know, first world country, it’s more expensive. Some of the European countries, it can be a million or more.
00:08:11:06 – 00:08:44:11
Joel Nagal: Some of the countries it can go up a size 10 million. Some of the Caribbean, Latin America, Central America can be a lot less. You mentioned Panama, Panama’s, the favorite for a lot of people. There’s the friendly nation visa. And you can usually make the right kind of investment and pay all your legal fees and be all set up for $120,000, so, that’s something very affordable. The Caribbean Citizenship Program started around $100,000. And again, once you go to Europe, you know, it starts at a half million and quickly goes up to a million and beyond, so.
00:08:44:13 – 00:09:02:05
Steven Miller: See, I mean, that’s part of the incredible part to me is like this new road that we’re starting to talk about here of citizenship by investment, right? That’s something that I can almost guarantee. And I mean, we know our listenership pretty darn well, our listenership doesn’t have that concept in mind.
00:09:02:08 – 00:09:02:24
Richard Carthon: No clue.
00:09:02:28 – 00:09:42:04
Steven Miller: So, when we think about, you know, what these options are, I want to look at the other side of the coin from Richard, because I think that a lot of people in the US especially get this misconception that if they’re going to, I guess, look at another country as a potential residence or take up citizenship in a different place, that that is what we have been told for the longest time is tax evasion. So my curiosity is like, where does that misconception currently lie? I mean, is there a certain specific process that you would have to go through as a US citizen to start taking up citizenship in a different place to then not necessarily be considered a tax evader?
00:09:42:22 – 00:10:19:14
Joel Nagal: Yeah, great. So, getting a residence or a second citizenship or a third citizenship in no way affects your US citizenship or your US tax obligations, okay? That’s the starting point. Now, if you decided you wanted to expatriate, that’s the legal act of giving up your US citizenship and frequently that is done for tax reasons and tax purposes. US law says you must have a second citizenship because you can’t give up your US citizenship and thereby become stateless. Both US law and international law doesn’t permit that, right?
00:10:19:18 – 00:11:03:28
Joel Nagal: There are small pockets of people in the world that are stateless and you know, you have the UN and everybody running around trying to help them become a citizen of somewhere. So, the US law basically says if you’re going to expatriate, then you have to have citizenship somewhere else. If you get a second citizenship, a third one, a residency here, a residency there, that doesn’t affect your US tax because the US tax system isn’t based on residence, it’s based on citizenship. So, as long as you have your US citizenship, you’ll always pay US tax. Getting these things I’m talking about, it’s not going to impact that one way or the other, but it puts you in a position where you could expatriate if you wanted to, without it, you could not. So, that, I think, is an important distinction.
00:11:04:00 – 00:11:16:26
Steven Miller: It’s so funny because when we were in that second session, I listened to you ask that question to the entirety of the audience and you said, “Who here wants to actually expatriate from the US?” No one raised their hand.
00:11:16:29 – 00:11:41:25
Joel Nagal: Yeah, exactly. Most people, if they get a second passport, they stick it in their safety deposit box and they hope they never need it, right? It’s ikind of like the Boy Scout motto we talked about, right? You know, you hope for the best, you prepare for the worst. And, you know, it’s like insurance, right? You don’t buy insurance because you hope your house is going to burn down tomorrow, you buy insurance and hope it never does. And if your house never does, you don’t mind what you spent on the insurance.
00:11:42:06 – 00:12:34:16
Joel Nagal: It’s the same thing, you know? You can go through a process to get residency, to get citizenship, put in the safety deposit box, never use it and you’re happy that you didn’t use it, but if the time comes, you need it, then you’re really happy you had it. I mean, I had some business and personal family matters that I had to do in Europe over the last year. And if I couldn’t have gone there, it would have been very difficult for me, stressful. It would have hurt my family, you know? To not be able to undertake those normal activities. And again, I’m riding on planes, frequently being upgraded because there’s nobody on the plane, you know? I flew on one flight from Washington, D.C. to Munich. I think there were six or seven passengers and maybe 15, you know, flight attendants and staff. There were twice as many. And they just said, “Look, why don’t you guys sit in the business class?” Like, Okay, no problem, you know?
00:12:34:18 – 00:12:56:19
Richard Carthon: Right. Wow. I mean, but something about all of this and why I thought this was a really interesting conversation is that, you know, something that we like to do is empower and to just let people know that things are even an option. Like, before today’s conversation, I wouldn’t even known that there was an option of dual citizenship at all of these different countries and there’s different levels to it, right? Because, yes, I’m proud to be an American, I’m proud of everything else.
00:12:56:21 – 00:13:15:02
Joel Nagal: And with everything that’s going on, you talk about contingency plans, insurance, everything else like that, do you even know that that is an option, is something that’s eye opening. Are there other things from a legal standpoint as we continue to evolve in this space that people might not be aware of, that maybe it’d be interesting for them to have on their radar?
00:13:15:15 – 00:13:52:09
Joel Nagal: Well, you know, when we talk about sort of more traditional asset protection, which is dealing with finances, you know, I’ve had a couple of questions here, you know, from different people throughout the conference and they literally didn’t know that they could legally move assets offshore. I said, “Well, you know, at least at this moment in time and for the first, you know, 250 years of US history, we have never had capital controls. We’ve never had exchange controls. We’ve never prohibited people’s ability to move their assets offshore where they wanted to buy real estate, open a bank account, buy gold and stick it in a vault in Switzerland.” You can do all those things, right?
00:13:52:16 – 00:14:20:07
Joel Nagal: The rub comes when you do those things and you’re supposed to report on income gains and things like that and you don’t. And you think, well, because it’s offshore, I don’t have to tell anybody about it. That’s where you get into trouble, because, look, we live in a very, very transparent world. You know, there’s a lot of information sharing. You have these supercomputers that can look at transactions happening in real time and that’s a worry I have for the Crypto community.
00:14:20:14 – 00:14:49:22
Joel Nagal: I think one of the almost false information out there, it’s a false feeling of security, is that I can do these things with impunity. Nobody’s going to know about them, I don’t have to report, I don’t have to pay tax, that’s absolutely false. I mean, you know, 30 years ago, I heard people saying the same thing about numbered Swiss bank accounts. And, you know, it didn’t work out for them. It’s not going to work out for people who are evading taxes. And I mean, you have people here openly advocating that.
00:14:50:26 – 00:15:25:23
Joel Nagal: I feel badly because, you know, someone’s going to end up in an orange jumpsuit, I don’t think that they’re going to be very happy. But, you know, again, the supercomputers are getting better, faster, stronger. You know, you can’t tell me, Oh, I didn’t earn any money last year, but, you know, you took four, you know, first class trips around the world and stayed in hotel suites. And, you know, you did all these things, you know, that will easily come back to haunt you. And I look at it and I say, look, for a lot of people in the Crypto space, they’re paying capital gains. That’s the lowest tax rate that there is, right?
00:15:25:26 – 00:16:07:13
Joel Nagal: I mean, if somebody pays me in Crypto, I have to declare that as ordinary income, I’m going to pay twice as much money. So, if you are so fortunate to be, you know, in Bitcoin five years ago, 10 years ago, and, you know, all of a sudden you’re going to sell that and pay a 20 percent gain just on the gain, the difference between your basis, you know, you’re not paying Social Security tax, you’re not paying state income tax, you’re not paying, you know, federal income tax, like, that’s a good deal. Just pay your tax, keep on going, keep your head down. And if you don’t like that and you don’t want to pay taxes going forward, there is a legal way to do that and that’s called expatriation. That’s called giving up your US citizenship.
00:16:07:21 – 00:16:20:03
Joel Nagel: So, you have to go one way or the other. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to stay an American, a US citizen, you have to pay tax on your rolled income. Pay your tax. You don’t want to pay tax, give up your citizenship, one or the other.
00:16:20:06 – 00:16:39:05
Richard Carthon: And real quick, I just want to point out, I really appreciate you breaking that down. I don’t even think a lot of people realize with capital gains, 20 percent is basically it. That they don’t have to pay the federal taxes, the state and everything else, the Social Security, and everything else. So, even you breaking that down, just like you said, ignorance is bliss, right? And so, even providing that information is going to be very helpful to a lot of our audience.
00:16:39:07 – 00:16:39:22
Joel Nagel: Right. I’m happy about that.
00:16:39:24 – 00:17:36:18
Steven Miller: But it was also just as our host here, them see this event, Eryka, she brought up this morning that because our capital gains structures are changing, especially through the course of the next year, we need to be prepared to protect our assets more. And that’s why this conversation is so valuable to our listeners. The one thing that I do want to throw your way real quick, because I think it’s a really interesting fact about you that I don’t think that we’ve actually heard much of during this conference is that you do have a ton of really fascinating international not just influence, but experience within your own profession. So, I’m kind of curious if you could lean into that for us for a little bit and just like, tell our listeners a little bit more about the more interesting side of like, what I believe was ambassadorship, if I’m not, you know, mistaken. But also, given your worldly experience, if it was in our listeners interest to expatriate, where might be the best places for them if they were looking to protect their assets?
00:17:37:04 – 00:18:11:17
Joel Nagel: Well, thank you. There’s a lot in that question. I could probably talk for an hour, but, you know, like a lot of lawyers, you know, I started out I was 25 years old and you take whatever business you can because you’re trying to, you know, I had a wife. Soon thereafter, I had my first child, my daughter. I always knew that I wanted to be focus in this international space. And I worked really hard, but sometimes I resisted the urge to just take anything that came my way because I knew I wanted to be in that particular space.
00:18:11:27 – 00:18:49:17
Joel Nagal: But over time, you know, it’s like a snowball, it builds up and you get and if you do a good job for people, the word gets out, you know, they refer you to their friends. And that more recently in the Crypto space, that’s what happened. I mean, four, five years ago, I got a, you know, a big Crypto client and the next thing you know, he’s introducing me to his friends. And, you know, they’re saying, well, can you use these legal structures like trusts and foundations? You know, like the trust structure has been around for a thousand years, right? The Brits invented it back during the Crusades, so. And the answer was, yes, of course we can.
00:18:49:19 – 00:19:36:24
Joel Nagel: And so, I really felt blessed over the years to get to know some really interesting people, really successful people. And frequently because I was in this sort of international offshore space, I had a seat at the table, where a domestic lawyer, maybe wouldn’t have, right? So, you have a big business deal going on and you know, if that deal is going on in Florida, they might go to the lawyer after the fact and say, “Okay, here’s what we agreed on, like, put all the papers together.” But in the international and offshore space, people are always worried, like, Well, we don’t want to do the wrong thing, we don’t want to you know, we don’t want to violate any US law, we don’t want to have problems with the IRS. So, I became more integrated into the overall discussion of the business.
00:19:36:26 – 00:20:11:15
Joel Nagel: So, first, it was important to understand well what was the goal and objective? What was the individual or the company, what are they trying to do? My job is to help them do it on the one hand. But then to make sure that the, you know, that the legal ramifications and tax ramifications back in the US were being properly addressed. And I think because the CEOs had sort of a feeling of insecurity about that element, that like, I had a seat at the table, like at this board table. So, I got to know some really, really interesting people, fascinating stories.
00:20:11:17 – 00:20:44:17
Joel Nagel: I’ve got to work on some amazing deals in, you know, Africa. And the Africa deal was, you know, it was amazing. I worked on a project in Ghana, Africa, for two years and the president of a large bus company called me the day after Thanksgiving. I found out later I was the fifth lawyer he called that day, but everybody was taking off because the Friday after Thanksgiving, nobody was working. And I was in my office working again, young lawyers, 26, I didn’t have any choice but to do that. And so, over time, that’s really how that happened.
00:20:45:03 – 00:21:22:15
Joel Nagel: You mentioned the ambassadorship. Yes, I had an opportunity to serve the government of Belize. It was really an opportunity of a lifetime. It was not very helpful from a financial economic perspective, but I really enjoyed it. Got to know again, great people and help advocate not for a company or a person, but for a country and that was really a fascinating opportunity. I’ve had some other people ask me if I’d be willing to do that again. I’m not sure. I feel like I kind of gave my time and gave my effort for that.
00:21:23:25 – 00:21:54:20
Joel Nagel: And, you know, this whole Bitcoin movement, again, it’s the snowball that’s getting bigger and bigger. It’s getting bigger and bigger because the value of these Cryptocurrencies is going up. The value of the Cryptocurrencies is going up because more people are getting involved and recognize them as a store of value. I mean, I have clients that are, you know, old farts that have all their money in gold and now they’re saying, “Hey, I think maybe I should pick up some Bitcoin.” Like, you know, they’re not your guys age, they’re at the other end of the spectrum.
00:21:54:22 – 00:22:34:02
Joel Nagel: So, when those kind of people come on board, when you read about fund managers, Stanley Druckenmiller and, you know, those kind of people who are more my generation and older getting involved, you know, they’re certainly late to the party. But, you know, that’s what’s going to continue to drive and propel, you know, Bitcoin higher. But because of that, I think what I do, which is, you know, classic asset protection. You know, with a couple of years ago, you had Bitcoin and it was worth, let’s say, $200,000. You weren’t really thinking about asset protection, you weren’t thinking about estate planning, you weren’t thinking about worrying about lawsuits.
00:22:34:04 – 00:22:51:11
Joel Nagel: Well, now that 200,000 is 8,000,000. Oh, now you better start thinking about those things, right? Eight million, Hey I don’t want somebody to take it from me. I don’t want to get sued. I want to make sure it’s there for my kids if they need it for their education. So, now, you know, it’s a circular thing.
00:22:51:13 – 00:23:19:03
Joel Nagel: The banks, the trust companies, the lawyers, they want to serve the Crypto industry more because it’s more valuable and the individuals who have it need those things more again, because it’s more valuable. So, you know, I think as Bitcoin goes to 100,000, 200,000, however high it’s going to go, it’s just going to pull more and more people from conferences like this, you know, up into that category of folks that really need, you know, asset protection, estate planning.
00:23:19:13 – 00:23:32:16
Richard Carthon: Yeah, for sure, man. Well, you know, I think you unpacked a lot of solid information from it and really cool that you got to be the ambassador of Belize. For everyone that’s watching, I don’t know if you can see this amazing tie, but he has basically a ton of different flags from countries all over the world.
00:23:32:18 – 00:23:34:23
Joel Nagel: I almost didn’t wear this tie today. So, I’m glad I did.
00:23:34:25 – 00:23:36:25
Richard Carthon: It’s very fitting. It looks really great, man.
00:23:36:27 – 00:23:37:12
Joel Nagel: Thank you.
00:23:37:14 – 00:23:54:07
Richard Carthon: But, you know, as we kind of wrap this up, I always like to ask a couple of fun questions as we get towards the end. And one that I always like to do that you might find a little challenging is if you could take all the wealth of knowledge that you have right now and can impart wisdom on yourself when you first got started, what would be some of that information you give yourself?
00:23:55:03 – 00:24:47:15
Joel Nagel: Well, you know, first of all, it’s very different from my perspective. Looking back, it’s like, you know, sort of the rearview mirror versus the, you know, the windshield looking forward. I mean, you know, there were plenty of times early in my career where I was frustrated about business, frustrated about money, you know, a young family starting starting things and, you know, I think it is really important to stay true to your core, you know, belief system, to your core values, to your core strengths. And, you know, obviously there were times where I was tempted to go down a whole bunch of different rabbit holes, but you know, try to stay on track. But I did it in a very uncertain way. So, the one advice I would say is, look, you know, don’t sweat the small stuff, just keep going and, you know, everything’s going to come to you.
00:24:48:06 – 00:25:29:28
Joel Nagel: Again, maybe it took 32 years to be an overnight success, but I’m here now, and that’s okay, you know? There were times when, you know, like, again, when I was an ambassador, I wasn’t really making any money for a couple of years because, you know, I think my children’s college tuitions were way more than any money I made. But, you know, it was giving me invaluable contacts. It was staying true to what I was trying to do and accomplish. And, you know, I feel that way now. I mean, I did it in the philanthropic world. One year I served as Rotary District governor. Same thing. I mean, it almost bankrupted my business that year because it was literally a full-time job and no money.
00:25:30:06 – 00:25:57:26
Joel Nagel: And obviously you can’t afford to do that all the time, but, you know, as you go through life, they’re points where you need to be able to do that. Money’s not you know, money’s important, but it’s not the only thing. And I don’t think it should really drive your life. I know a lot of wealthy people that are extremely miserable. So, you know, wealth itself isn’t going to make you happy. I think it’s the other way around. Do something that you’re good at that really makes you happy, then I think the wealth will follow.
00:25:58:07 – 00:26:37:24
Steven Miller: And I think that’s probably a really great note to kind of wrap this thing up on, because I think that as we continue to talk to people here around the Crypto Experience, I don’t think that any one of us, as much as there’s an incredible amount of hype in the space right now, none of the people here are thinking that. They’re not thinking to themselves that any certain amount of Bitcoin can buy them happiness. They’re thinking, Oh, wow, I’ve got a lot of Bitcoin. I’m going to smile big. So, for right now, I think that we’ve got a really great thing going on within the space. I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us. Real quick to share with our listeners where can they catch up with you again just to connect or ask questions or even just get more of your content?
00:26:37:26 – 00:27:31:24
Joel Nagel: Sure. You can go to my website, It’s Nagal Law, www.NagalLaw. There’s two L’s in the middle, N-A-G-A-L L-A-W.com. I also have a podcast called The Global Wealth Fortress Report. You Google that, you know, I think you can find whatever all episodes that have ever been recorded for all time. And, you know, the nice thing about that is you can kind of pick and choose what you’re interested in. So, if you see an episode about, you know, residency in Portugal and that’s what you’re interested, watch that. They’re real fast and easy. Each episode is just one item, talk for anywhere from five to 10 minutes. Sometimes I have a guest in a format like this where I ask them questions. So, that those would be the two ways. And from there, you know, you can find all my other information, phone number, things like that. I’d be happy to, you know, reach out and speak to any of your viewers if they have questions or interested in this topic.
00:27:32:17 – 00:27:35:02
Richard Carthon: Absolutely. Well, Joel, thank you so much for joining us.
00:27:35:04 – 00:27:35:19
Joel Nagel: Yeah. Thank you.
00:27:35:21 – 00:27:40:17
Richard Carthon: Happy to have this conversation. Having a great time at the Miami Crypto Experience. And of course, everyone listening, Stay Crypto Current.
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