Ingo Rübe join us to discuss Discreet Identity Representation with Kilt Protocol.
KILT Protocol was founded in 2018 by Ingo Rübe, CEO of BOTLabs GmbH, together with Hubert Burda Media, where he served as CTO from 2012 to 2017. Earlier Ingo worked as project director for the German publisher Axel Springer SE from 2006 to 2012. Ingo served on the board of directors of the Drupal Association from 2017-2020 and BOTLabs is a founding member of the International Association for Trusted Blockchain Applications (INATBA).
The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below.
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Richard Carthon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Crypto Current. Your host here, Richard Carthon. And today I have a special guest all the way out in Berlin working on a protocol that you need to know more about. I’m excited myself to learn more about. We have Ingo with kilt. How are you doing today?
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Ingo Rübe: I’m doing fine. Thank you for inviting me.
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Richard Carthon: Of course, we’re excited to learn more about you and learn more about this amazing project you have going on.
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Richard Carthon: But before we do, let’s learn more about you. He give us some
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Richard Carthon: background on yourself.
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Ingo Rübe: Yeah. So cross. I mean, I’m a computer scientist. I’m from Germany. I also studied in Germany in the 90s of the last century. I first
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Ingo Rübe: started
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Ingo Rübe: quite a while ago. After studying the start of I did something pretty unusual. I went into industry
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Ingo Rübe: and
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Ingo Rübe: worked for companies like Axis Bring, which you might have heard of and every specific publisher and also broader, which is also quite big international. The company was the CTO
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Ingo Rübe: there and and one of the things that you
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Ingo Rübe: do as a CTO is basically report to the group board is there. Here’s a brand new technology coming up. Please look
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Ingo Rübe: at it.
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Ingo Rübe: And this is how I made it into blockchain, basically because I
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Ingo Rübe: told those guys at Warner,
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Ingo Rübe: there’s something wrong there. And then they said, OK, if it’s so important and we need the company for it, who’s going to run
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Ingo Rübe: it, you can do that.
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Ingo Rübe: And here I am, amazing.
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Richard Carthon: So just give us a timeline on that. So you first learn about
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Richard Carthon: blockchain, you know, talking to
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Richard Carthon: industry, having some conversations about what year was that?
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Ingo Rübe: I think it was 2015 and it wasn’t in Texas, actually.
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Ingo Rübe: And I, of course, and
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Ingo Rübe: there were some people from the from from their theory
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Ingo Rübe: importing, having a speech
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Ingo Rübe: there. And I said there because I basically when I heard about bitcoin that there was never really interested in that and said, Yeah, let’s learn something about that. And that was completely amazing for me because I started noticing that this thing is going to change the world completely because it is applicable basically to everything out there, not only your personal life and not only finance, but also any type of industry. And the power of the smart contract was actually what got me, and that was pretty amazing.
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Ingo Rübe: And well, since then I’m into blockchain now.
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Richard Carthon: That’s great, and it’s good to have that background context. I mean, the fact that you’ve been in it for almost six years about to be seven. And as you go through this industry, we’ve seen the waves, ups and downs and just how much it is evolved and things are being continue to be built on top. It’s interesting that smart contracts is what really drew you in for. For me, when I first learned about crypto back in early twenty eighteen and I first learned about bitcoin, a theory on the theorem captured my attention for the same reasons for the the fact that it was more of a platform with things being built on top. So when you were looking at blockchain protocol and just even observing what killed
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is, it looks like it is meant
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to be something that other things are built on top of. So can you just explain, you know, what was the thesis
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behind kilts and what made you want to create this company?
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Yeah. Coming from industry you think may be a little bit different than coming straight from university, but it comes straight from university. You want to change the world all over. And when you
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when you come from industry,
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you think of applications and how you could actually apply a technology to a given use case. And this is what we have. It drove us in the in the beginning and still driving us. So we were looking at, OK, this this beautiful
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what is good for? And the answer was when we started in 2018, January 2018, the answer was even harder than it is today. It was like, Yeah, you can have been courts and then you can have smart contracts.
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Richard Carthon: But smart contracts are out. They’re just
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Ingo Rübe: small pieces of
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Richard Carthon: software. When you look at them
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Ingo Rübe: closer and there was no really no, no industry adoption and we thought, OK, industry adoption is going to take a while, which is normal when you look at the internet and also took quite a decade or two until the industry started using this thing. But then then the question is what? What will the first world? Where will it happen first? And this is probably where it is needed most. And we looked at how digital identity is actually being. Used in the internet of today and went to recall that.
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Ingo Rübe: And this is completely wrong, and it’s it’s so much worse than the non-digital
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Richard Carthon: identity that we have. I can explain that later if you want.
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Richard Carthon: And that actually is a step back. So we digitizing and redoing it worse than we did it before. And so and it seems that the internet
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Richard Carthon: is in the way
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Richard Carthon: constructed the way that it always goes in the wrong direction. And this is where we still think that the first adoption of
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Richard Carthon: industry will
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Richard Carthon: actually happen. So this is why we said, OK, let’s
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Richard Carthon: work in digital identity.
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Richard Carthon: Yeah, and I mean, it’s a great point, and
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Richard Carthon: even with announcements like
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Richard Carthon: Facebook going to changing its names to meet
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Richard Carthon: in the switch to the future,
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Richard Carthon: which is the Metaverse and a lot of these different companies starting to step up and
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Richard Carthon: have some initial success
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Richard Carthon: with that kind of announcement, it becomes even more.
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Richard Carthon: It’s more important that we continue to keep our identities private, even as we think about living in a COVID world with having to show proof of vaccination and everything else, identities becoming more and more and more a necessity, especially our digital identity. So as we think through that process, how is it that guilt is
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Richard Carthon: uniquely going after
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Richard Carthon: to help solve that, that challenge?
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Richard Carthon: Yeah. Well, we looked at it quite a long time and
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Richard Carthon: the idea
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Richard Carthon: was, look at what we have in the physical world and the physical world we have. When you look, when you work, when you talk about identity, actually, this is a very blurry thing, right? But everybody thinks something else. But what you can say about identity is
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Richard Carthon: basically always consists
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Richard Carthon: of two things that one thing is an identifier that could be your face. For example, it identifies you
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Richard Carthon: by making you different
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Richard Carthon: from others when you look at the different face things you as a different person. So this identifies you.
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Richard Carthon: And this is kind of initial
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Richard Carthon: decentralized in the physical world because it’s your face and some genes and you made it and there was no government, no company given your face.
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Richard Carthon: So this is proceeding
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Richard Carthon: decentralized in the physical world. And then this is not your identity. It’s just an identifier. Your identity is much more is where you are. Where you studied is that if you can drive a car, it’s where you live, which nationality you are and all that stuff. This brings together your identity and those identity fragments. They are
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Richard Carthon: actually represented
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Richard Carthon: by credentials, and those credentials are issued by trusted entities. So there is a government which gives you your identity card or your passport as a driver’s license department, which gives your driver’s license based university, which gives you your university diploma. There’s a public library which gives you the library card, so all those things
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Richard Carthon: are basically trusted entities, and they leave
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Richard Carthon: in a very clever way, actually your identifier to the credential that
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Richard Carthon: they issue. They just put
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Richard Carthon: your name on it or you put them, put your face on it, that picture of your face. And this is how you can
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Richard Carthon: go and
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Richard Carthon: present one of those credentials to someone. And if
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Richard Carthon: they trust the
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Richard Carthon: issuer of this credential, then they can actually trust you because a piece of your face on it. And that’s that’s totally great, actually, because it’s absolutely frictionless because the issuer of the
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Richard Carthon: of the credential is not part of the identity transaction. If I go to. Bonner and I have to be like 18 to get into and show my driver’s license. The driver’s license department will never find out which mall I went to. This is great. This is great privacy because I decide as a user who will I show my credentials to? Will show ID and which comes with I shall. I can even put my thumb over the driver’s license so that the barman doesn’t see my name because he doesn’t need to see my name.
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Richard Carthon: He just needs to see the picture and he needs to see my date of birth. That’s, you know, this is what we call selective disclosure. So this is actually a great process. And then if you look at the internet, we see that all the data, including the identifiers actually held by Facebook.
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Richard Carthon: This is
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Richard Carthon: quite not so private because they can do with my credentials, whatever they want, they can show them to others
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Richard Carthon: and they obviously
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Richard Carthon: don’t even show them to me. They show them just to others. This is not right. And then the physical world, I have my wallet full of credentials, which all bear my name or my picture, and I choose where it should have been destroyed and which part of my identity. Actually, I wanted to chose to. So what led us to build killed is actually, let’s
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Richard Carthon: try to bring this model
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Richard Carthon: from the physical world into the digital
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Richard Carthon: world.
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Richard Carthon: And this happens in two ways, basically. So first of all, you need to have a possibility to create this identifying yourself and
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Richard Carthon: not by
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Richard Carthon: talking to a service. So you need a piece of software which you have to install on your computer or your phone or whatever. And this produces your identifier,
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Richard Carthon: first of all.
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Richard Carthon: So this, of course, is the private and the public part of the public policy address.
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Richard Carthon: Basically,
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Richard Carthon: it’s a
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Richard Carthon: picture of your face and then you have the product called where you can sign with it. So to make sure that you
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Richard Carthon: actually did something. And then on
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Richard Carthon: top of
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Richard Carthon: that, we
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Richard Carthon: build so-called verifiable
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Richard Carthon: credentials, which is a standard
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Richard Carthon: verifiable credentials are actually credentials which you request from us, but
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Richard Carthon: from a trusted
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Richard Carthon: entity. So you go to a trusted entity, say, Hey, I trust my driver’s license test, please have a driver’s license and they will ask you for a picture of your face name and then they attach the picture of your face to this credential. Then they sign the credential and then send it back to you. Now it’s
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Richard Carthon: yours and you choose
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Richard Carthon: where you show or when showed and it is stored on your computer is not stored on the database of the driver’s license. And this reproduces actually the cool things that we had in the physical world for the digital world. And this is what killed is all about.
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Richard Carthon: Got it. Thank you for that. Let me just try to break that down, so ultimately you are creating an identifier that we can use in the real world that’s not just staying in a place with us, not even having the ability to see where it all is living, what all we’re choosing to share. Prime example of
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Richard Carthon: a Facebook in almost we kind of go in their service. They kind of track and watch
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Richard Carthon: everywhere that we go and then use all that information to share it back to potential advertisers. But in a place like killed, just like going to get your driver’s license or whatnot once you go and get it, now it’s yours. And unless you go somewhere and someone is trying to prove your ID, no one can just immediately go get it. There has to be a reason or a ping for
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Richard Carthon: that type of information to be gathered
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Richard Carthon: in the first place.
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Richard Carthon: Exactly. Unless you publish it, of course you can publish it then
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Richard Carthon: and
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Richard Carthon: there might be use cases for that as well. But in the normal case, it’s first
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Richard Carthon: of all, yours. I like it like you can also
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Richard Carthon: publish your your passport on
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Richard Carthon: your website,
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Richard Carthon: if you like. That’s also possible, of
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Richard Carthon: course, right?
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Richard Carthon: Hopefully, someone wouldn’t do that.
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Richard Carthon: But do you
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Richard Carthon: have the opportunity to definitely do that? So. OK, so we have the basis of what killed is, which is to help with creating that identifier. But I believe you can also come on here and use your SDK to build applications on top of that. He can explain how that works.
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Richard Carthon: investing there.
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Richard Carthon: Maybe I forgot the bill in the beginning. I also work and also said by the wireless board member of the Drupal Association, so I’m pretty much open source infected. I also looked at the business models behind open source, and that’s quite interesting because open source, when you look at leaders and Drupal writers and all those guys actually embrace a little bit different than what we have in blockchain and blockchain. It’s also open source, of course,
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Richard Carthon: but the business rules are different.
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Richard Carthon: And when you look at the successful big open source projects, actually, they normally have a very small core team of people maintaining the theme the core.
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Richard Carthon: And then
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Richard Carthon: there’s a lot of people out there who actually contribute to
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Richard Carthon: that. And this people are
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Ingo Rübe: saying Drupal, for example, it’s 20 people are so controlling the system and then you have 70000 people out there and contributing to the software and 70000 people won’t contribute if they don’t get paid. So the two people obviously can’t pay the 70000. That’s wouldn’t be possible. And as the software has no license fee, also the software is not going to pay them. So how does it work? Actually, it works by building business opportunities around that, and this is where all of our open source is really, really good and this is what we tried to be as well.
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Ingo Rübe: So there’s tons of opportunities how you can build on top of killed, how you can be part of the community and do something useful and this useful thing you sell then
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Ingo Rübe: as a piece of software
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Ingo Rübe: along with a license or whatever, or as a protester who has trust and issues credentials. So there’s many, many opportunities to to make money around that. And when you do that, then you’re probably somehow successful. And when you’re successful, other people will see, Wow, that’s great. Actually, can I do it myself? And then you will have lots of small companies emerging from the past, and this is how the Open-Source novelty works. And this is exactly what we want to have with children. We want integrators who have already contacted through their, I don’t know some of the small software companies who were before.
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Ingo Rübe: I don’t know auto manufacturers or for publishers or whatever you like. So they have the customers already. We want them to integrate to build software on top of guilt and so that some of our selling prices, we don’t really care.
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Richard Carthon: But in the end, they will be grateful
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Richard Carthon: for having the
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Richard Carthon: guilt thing below
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Richard Carthon: there and they will not give us money. We will never take a share, but they will give us part of the software and contribute back to guilt. And this is how the community actually grows. And if we have if we managed to build a thriving community of lots of people who are happy building on top of killed, this thing is just going to grow.
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Richard Carthon: This is what we are looking for. No doubt. And it’s it’s a solid model.
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Richard Carthon: And just like you said, I appreciate you breaking that, breaking that down because I myself have been very curious about the open source of like, all right, how do the originators ultimately find a way to monetize whatnot? But to your point, it
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Richard Carthon: sounds like there. There’s when
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Richard Carthon: you create so much and add so much value to other people and you have this valuable
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Richard Carthon: ecosystem, you can have some of
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Richard Carthon: that.
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Richard Carthon: Data, knowledge and whatnot, there’s things that you
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Richard Carthon: can use and do with it,
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Richard Carthon: so definitely appreciate you breaking that
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Richard Carthon: down in another direction I want to go
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Richard Carthon: real quick is I believe you
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Richard Carthon: had like two major announcers, they came out on one star with one of yours, officially decentralized. Can you explain what that like, what that means and why it’s a big deal?
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Richard Carthon: I think it’s it’s a really big
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Richard Carthon: deal nowadays,
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Richard Carthon: because there’s there you see some blockchain projects out there, especially when you look at the past like bitcoin. In theory, that was natural, decentralised. So it was
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Richard Carthon: it was like
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Richard Carthon: a of course you do doing blockchain, you have to decentralize. Over the last years, we saw some projects which were
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Richard Carthon: rather, let’s say,
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Richard Carthon: private blockchains are not really permissionless blockchains
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Richard Carthon: and those things
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Richard Carthon: are not
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Richard Carthon: really decentralized
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Richard Carthon: then, because they have someone who has to or, well, who is in the center and who makes the software and all that stuff, which has the use cases. No doubt about it,
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Richard Carthon: but it is just
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Richard Carthon: a fancy database
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Richard Carthon: in my eyes.
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Richard Carthon: And so I think decentralization moved a little bit away from our focus in the last year or the focus of the blockchain community. But it’s the actual purpose of the blockchain stuff, right? Exactly. And this is why we are
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Richard Carthon: actually quite
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Richard Carthon: keen to actually do everything to be really decentralized, and there’s
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Richard Carthon: many aspects
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Richard Carthon: to that. So first of all, you have to have shared security with another network, which is totally permissionless and public. All you have to do it yourself. That’s that’s one point. The next point that we achieved that by connecting to Kazuma, which is part of the Polkadot
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Richard Carthon: world
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Richard Carthon: and we
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Richard Carthon: have we went
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Richard Carthon: to those so-called slot auctions and one one of the last. And so we are we are part of the shared security of the of the Kazuma network. So this is decentralization is the run. And then of course, you need people who actually you run your blockchain, right? You should do it yourself on your own computer because
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Richard Carthon: that would be pretty centralized
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Richard Carthon: and you have just five friends who do that. But it should be an open and permissionless and everyone
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Richard Carthon: should join and should be
00:18:53:16 – 00:19:33:15
Richard Carthon: able to join there, which is the second part. This is our Canadian network, which was set up and then the third parties, which just happened last week. And that’s the full decentralization that is giving up control over the software. So any changes that are being made in the future are not determined by us. They are determined by the community. So there’s voting mechanisms on there and everyone can have an opinion. So everyone can say everyone who’s part of the guild network can actually say, Hey, I wrote the number of creators a changed from 75 to 26 for whatever reason, and then there will be a vote on that and the whole community can vote on it for me.
00:19:33:17 – 00:19:35:03
Richard Carthon: And then the decision is made on.
00:19:35:05 – 00:19:36:00
Richard Carthon: The blockchain is
00:19:36:02 – 00:19:45:15
Richard Carthon: automatically updated, so those parameters automatically changed without anyone being hands on it. So. And this is an important step, I think,
00:19:46:02 – 00:19:47:18
Richard Carthon: in the life of a blockchain
00:19:47:20 – 00:19:56:10
Richard Carthon: so that it is actually now owned by the community, which is absolutely great for us because it’s diverse, diverse. What’s the best thing about right now?
00:19:56:12 – 00:20:16:14
Richard Carthon: It’s ideal, and thanks for breaking down the centralization. I know a lot of newbies come in and they kind of like are curious about the difference between like centralized and decentralized. And I think that was a good like story of how you got to decentralization and why it’s such a big deal. And I agree with you, there are so many newer projects that are going back to being more centralized, and I think it has to do with being able
00:20:16:16 – 00:20:21:02
Richard Carthon: to onboard its clients faster. But speed to have like an
00:20:21:04 – 00:20:22:16
Richard Carthon: end user doesn’t necessarily.
00:20:23:12 – 00:20:25:15
Richard Carthon: Payoff in the long run. I think
00:20:25:17 – 00:20:28:13
Richard Carthon: if if you keep watching at its core what it was meant to be,
00:20:28:15 – 00:20:29:15
Richard Carthon: which is decentralized,
00:20:29:17 – 00:20:34:06
Richard Carthon: giving the power to the users, giving the power to the community and doing it in a safe, secure
00:20:34:08 – 00:20:35:22
Richard Carthon: way that really gets the
00:20:35:24 – 00:20:38:27
Richard Carthon: community more involved and feels like they have a
00:20:38:29 – 00:20:39:20
Richard Carthon: hand in the game.
00:20:39:25 – 00:20:45:08
Richard Carthon: And because they’re truly part of being able to make the decisions, which I think is absolutely incredible.
00:20:45:10 – 00:20:54:07
Richard Carthon: So when you look at things like identities, identities, identity is potentially dangerous. If you have a lot of data and trends, this is what we see with the Facebooks
00:20:54:09 – 00:20:55:28
Richard Carthon: and others right now.
00:20:56:19 – 00:21:00:18
Richard Carthon: If you if you’re out there to defend the data to make it better,
00:21:00:26 – 00:21:01:11
Richard Carthon: then you
00:21:01:13 – 00:21:02:22
Richard Carthon: actually can build a
00:21:02:24 – 00:21:04:03
Richard Carthon: company which
00:21:04:09 – 00:21:08:16
Richard Carthon: owns all the data or controls the network, all the data, as it was, I said
00:21:09:00 – 00:21:10:16
Richard Carthon: it’d be decentralized,
00:21:10:18 – 00:21:11:03
Richard Carthon: otherwise
00:21:11:05 – 00:21:12:12
Richard Carthon: it’s getting dangerous
00:21:12:14 – 00:21:14:09
Richard Carthon: again. And maybe if it’s
00:21:14:11 – 00:21:15:21
Richard Carthon: successful, even more
00:21:15:23 – 00:21:27:25
Richard Carthon: dangerous than Facebook in the end, because there’s not only the users data, but also machine data and all the stuff you think of IoT devices, if that’s all in the network and then somebody controls the thing, that would be terrible. So we when
00:21:27:27 – 00:21:29:18
Richard Carthon: when you when you do something
00:21:29:25 – 00:21:40:00
Richard Carthon: which might be important for the world, then you have to take care that it is fully decentralized. Otherwise you are just not better than the Facebooks, right?
00:21:40:02 – 00:21:56:17
Richard Carthon: And thanks for making that distinction. Something that you brought up a second ago that I want to go back for a quick second. You brought up the fact that you have a pair of chain with Kusama. You just explain what that is and why that’s also another big deal and how pair of chains help with creating more and more of that community.
00:21:57:09 – 00:22:01:03
Richard Carthon: Yeah. So the idea of purging is quite genius.
00:22:01:05 – 00:22:02:15
Richard Carthon: I would say someone
00:22:02:18 – 00:22:34:00
Richard Carthon: my idea, but it’s quite good because another thing that we see, especially around Etherium and some other implants, is that you. Everyone uses the same blockchain, basically, and they put a smart contract into it. And it’s because my contract is CryptoKitties. Then everything breaks down because there’s too much traffic on the network. And if it’s not CryptoKitties, the price of the guy. The gas price goes up and down. It’s just because it’s congested in the network because everyone uses their own.
00:22:34:11 – 00:22:39:03
Richard Carthon: But they never left behind. Polkadot and Kusama is that everybody
00:22:39:09 – 00:22:39:24
Richard Carthon: actually
00:22:39:26 – 00:22:45:12
Richard Carthon: builds. There are a lot of chain and they are purpose blockchains. And so they do one thing well, but they don’t do everything.
00:22:45:14 – 00:22:48:00
Richard Carthon: So Tilt does not have smart contracts.
00:22:48:05 – 00:22:52:18
Richard Carthon: It just has these ideas, decentralized identifiers and verifiable credentials.
00:22:52:20 – 00:22:54:10
Richard Carthon: There’s nothing else there. There’s nothing you
00:22:54:12 – 00:23:00:24
Richard Carthon: can do with killing only this thing, but its own blockchain. It’s not a smart contract running on another system, it’s his own blockchain.
00:23:01:05 – 00:23:03:25
Richard Carthon: And so this blockchain derives
00:23:03:27 – 00:23:04:12
Richard Carthon: the
00:23:04:14 – 00:23:05:20
Richard Carthon: security and
00:23:06:00 – 00:23:25:25
Richard Carthon: also communication features from the so-called relay chain, and those relay chains are present and Polkadot. So you want to connect to one of those relay trains and then introduce blocks in your blockchain, and then you send every single block over to the relay chain and they make an audit on the block if it actually fits blast
00:23:25:27 – 00:23:27:08
Richard Carthon: block and
00:23:27:10 – 00:24:02:08
Richard Carthon: nothing bad has happened. And then they improve it, and then they send it back and then you don’t need the extra and you don’t need extra security in your system. So that’s quite attractive because of course, this is also forming an ecosystem because it’s terribly easy to speak with or to interact with other blockchains in this ecosystem. There’s many like Moonbeam, like eye color and all those guys who are doing a great job. One of them is doing smart contracts, one of them’s doing more finance. We are doing identity and it all fits together to a great system which is never congested because it’s it’s
00:24:03:00 – 00:24:03:21
Richard Carthon: tens of
00:24:03:23 – 00:24:17:18
Richard Carthon: blockchain, maybe dozens of blockchain, maybe hundreds of blockchains in the end, which are running in parallel. And they all do their job and they are communicating through this relay trading mechanism, which is which makes it easy for us to collaborate.
00:24:17:24 – 00:24:20:05
Richard Carthon: Of course, very frictionless.
00:24:21:26 – 00:24:25:15
Richard Carthon: There’s also building a great ecosystem, which can be really
00:24:26:12 – 00:24:27:11
Richard Carthon: valuable, I think,
00:24:27:13 – 00:24:35:04
Richard Carthon: in the future because it’s it’s completely transparent what’s happening there. So it’s great to be there, but there’s only limited
00:24:35:06 – 00:24:37:04
Richard Carthon: place, so the team
00:24:37:06 – 00:24:41:15
Richard Carthon: cannot do thousands of Eritreans today. So there is a
00:24:41:17 – 00:24:43:09
Richard Carthon: mechanism that
00:24:43:11 – 00:24:48:08
Richard Carthon: the owners of the Kusama or the dot coins actually
00:24:48:10 – 00:24:50:27
Richard Carthon: vote on who’s going to be
00:24:50:29 – 00:25:13:01
Richard Carthon: the next currency. So who do they want inside their network? The value that probably on different things, but one of them is obviously going to be useful for the network. And then they reduce their coins, their thoughts and the customers to vote on who’s next in. And well, we have been voted on, which is cool and we put extra money.
00:25:13:22 – 00:25:18:10
Richard Carthon: Now that’s awesome and thank you for breaking down pair of chains. I think that’s a really, really, really cool distinction because
00:25:19:05 – 00:25:19:23
Richard Carthon: it immediately
00:25:19:25 – 00:25:21:25
Richard Carthon: solves the major issue that a lot of people who
00:25:21:27 – 00:25:22:22
Richard Carthon: are in the grip.
00:25:22:28 – 00:25:23:13
Richard Carthon: Most of
00:25:23:15 – 00:25:24:09
Richard Carthon: you who are dealing
00:25:24:11 – 00:25:33:10
Richard Carthon: with the theory I’m in doing with dealing with any of the coins are dealing with any other entities and understanding how much spending in gas and why that’s happening and how pair of trains can help solve
00:25:33:12 – 00:25:34:28
Richard Carthon: that. Because each of these blockchains, each
00:25:35:00 – 00:25:38:20
Richard Carthon: of these ecosystems, has a part to play, but they don’t jam up the system, which
00:25:38:22 – 00:25:40:00
Richard Carthon: is amazing and
00:25:40:13 – 00:25:42:28
Richard Carthon: helps with scalability. It helps with everything else because as you think about the
00:25:43:00 – 00:25:43:24
Richard Carthon: entire crypto
00:25:43:26 – 00:25:45:05
Richard Carthon: ecosystem, as we continue to grow,
00:25:45:11 – 00:25:47:02
Richard Carthon: we’re still very small. I believe
00:25:47:04 – 00:25:50:07
Richard Carthon: last number I saw, it’s like one point five percent
00:25:50:09 – 00:25:51:19
Richard Carthon: of the world is in crypto or
00:25:51:21 – 00:25:52:25
Richard Carthon: something like that, which is absolutely
00:25:52:27 – 00:25:53:12
Richard Carthon: nothing.
00:25:53:14 – 00:26:07:02
Richard Carthon: So if if we just went to five percent, all of a sudden the system would get fried, we could not handle that type of load. And it’s ecosystems like a dog cassava in some of these others that are spinning these pair of chains up and then making sure
00:26:07:04 – 00:26:08:11
Richard Carthon: that there’s layer one layer
00:26:08:20 – 00:26:10:03
Richard Carthon: two scalability is
00:26:10:09 – 00:26:12:00
Richard Carthon: being fixed is what’s going to help
00:26:12:06 – 00:26:15:18
Richard Carthon: make these these interactions and these transactions faster,
00:26:15:20 – 00:26:16:29
Richard Carthon: smoother and
00:26:17:01 – 00:26:18:16
Richard Carthon: make it pleasant for all these
00:26:18:18 – 00:26:20:03
Richard Carthon: newcomers who aren’t necessarily
00:26:20:05 – 00:26:20:20
Richard Carthon: as
00:26:20:29 – 00:26:22:20
Richard Carthon: proficient in the old
00:26:22:22 – 00:26:25:14
Richard Carthon: days of crypto, blockchain and speed with everything
00:26:25:16 – 00:26:27:13
Richard Carthon: else. So I really definitely appreciate
00:26:27:15 – 00:26:30:06
Richard Carthon: you breaking that down. I think it’s important for for people to
00:26:30:10 – 00:26:31:28
Richard Carthon: understand the pair of chain
00:26:32:00 – 00:26:32:24
Richard Carthon: distinctions, so
00:26:33:00 – 00:26:34:18
Richard Carthon: thank you for that. But I’ll tell
00:26:34:20 – 00:26:35:05
Richard Carthon: you what, man,
00:26:35:11 – 00:26:36:24
Richard Carthon: you have dropped a significant
00:26:36:26 – 00:26:40:15
Richard Carthon: amount of great knowledge on us, and you definitely got us excited to learn more about
00:26:40:17 – 00:26:41:11
Richard Carthon: Kill. But before we
00:26:41:13 – 00:26:42:11
Richard Carthon: wrap this up, I got two
00:26:42:17 – 00:26:45:02
Richard Carthon: final fun questions to wrap up with you, with
00:26:45:16 – 00:26:51:24
Richard Carthon: the first being with all the information and knowledge you have right now. If you go back to yourself and you first learned about blockchain back in
00:26:51:26 – 00:26:53:19
Richard Carthon: 2015 or back when you first
00:26:53:21 – 00:27:00:14
Richard Carthon: started, this company killed what? What, what are one or two pieces of wisdom you would give yourself as you started this journey?
00:27:01:27 – 00:27:02:23
Richard Carthon: Well, first, you
00:27:02:25 – 00:27:05:22
Richard Carthon: will probably be I’ll think of from just watching
00:27:07:15 – 00:27:09:09
Richard Carthon: some amazed about this one country,
00:27:13:00 – 00:27:17:26
Richard Carthon: probably that would be would have something, it would have been something I would would have told myself.
00:27:20:08 – 00:27:21:09
Richard Carthon: That’s the one thing.
00:27:22:10 – 00:27:23:05
Richard Carthon: The other thing.
00:27:26:03 – 00:27:26:24
Richard Carthon: It will
00:27:27:29 – 00:27:31:10
Richard Carthon: be prevented. Identity is more complex than you thought.
00:27:33:27 – 00:27:58:17
Richard Carthon: It actually took us almost a year to actually try to dig down in every aspect of of identity and then to model a system that we could actually start building. And so it was, I thought it would be much easier like you call this person and this possibly be and then you finished does not. It’s much thanks, and there’s a lot of things to think about,
00:27:58:25 – 00:28:00:29
Richard Carthon: but that’s well, it was
00:28:01:01 – 00:28:01:29
Richard Carthon: fun, so I wouldn’t
00:28:02:01 – 00:28:05:15
Richard Carthon: even tell me I wouldn’t. But but you bring up
00:28:05:17 – 00:28:11:20
Richard Carthon: a really good point of like some people get so caught up in the world of crypto because everything moves so fast. Same thing with blockchain. Everything’s moving
00:28:11:22 – 00:28:13:02
Richard Carthon: so fast that it takes something to
00:28:13:04 – 00:28:31:00
Richard Carthon: build things. It takes time to build companies. And with you being, you know, being in multiple industries, startups, et cetera, you know that things just aren’t built overnight. And I really am fascinated by companies who are willing to put in the time and understand that like, Hey, this is going to take, it’s gonna take a few years to build up. But when we have, we’re going to a fully functioning product.
00:28:31:09 – 00:28:35:07
Richard Carthon: People can use and be able to move quickly. On top of which I think is great because
00:28:35:09 – 00:28:45:00
Richard Carthon: unfortunately, you have a lot of projects that are raising money, promising the Moon, the sky and the stars. And initially, once they are out to the world, they don’t have anything, and now they’re spending the next two or three
00:28:45:02 – 00:28:48:13
Richard Carthon: years building instead of vice versa. And so I think it’s really cool
00:28:49:00 – 00:28:49:27
Richard Carthon: the approach of like
00:28:50:05 – 00:28:50:20
Richard Carthon: even
00:28:51:06 – 00:29:07:08
Richard Carthon: even though it took you a year to really think through every single scenario of like, what does identity look like when you were able to start building on top of that? I know it’s benefited you because now you are able to move a lot faster. You have something way more secure. And I mean, the fact you got to a pair of jeans again speaks volumes of
00:29:07:10 – 00:29:10:09
Richard Carthon: what the Kusama and Polkadot community
00:29:10:11 – 00:29:10:29
Richard Carthon: think of you all.
00:29:11:01 – 00:29:12:27
Richard Carthon: So congratulations. Keep up the great
00:29:12:29 – 00:29:20:25
Richard Carthon: work and the final thought that I want to leave with you. In final question, rather, is what is the final thought that you want to leave with all of our listeners here today?
00:29:22:21 – 00:29:24:22
Richard Carthon: So just maybe the thought
00:29:24:24 – 00:29:54:07
Richard Carthon: that I just got from you in your last sentence is probably that if you if you’re building something and blockchain is not on the engineers that you meet, you should look around you and look at how you look about your legislation and about regulators and all that. You might need a lawyer in your company to actually guide you the right way to do things which are not illegal and stuff like that. That’s really, really important because if you want to
00:29:54:12 – 00:29:55:18
Richard Carthon: not do something
00:29:55:20 – 00:30:15:12
Richard Carthon: like something really crazy, which is the moonshot and then explodes, if you want to build something sustainable, you have to look around you. It’s really important that you think about every single step that you make. That’s very necessary. It’s also really necessary that you have communication around you. It’s not enough
00:30:15:14 – 00:30:16:20
Richard Carthon: to just build some
00:30:16:22 – 00:30:21:09
Richard Carthon: cool means. Communication is more than that. You have to
00:30:21:11 – 00:30:22:25
Richard Carthon: write things
00:30:22:27 – 00:30:57:28
Richard Carthon: so that people understand them, right? You have to have good documentation around what you do. You should follow standards if there are applicable somewhere and you should have people who can build a network because it’s not you alone. It’s always been when you think about how the three moves, now it’s it’s hundreds of companies in there. They’re all doing different things. Most of them doing great things, actually, and they understand it’s not me. It’s us. And I think you have to start partnering and partnering with the same people.
00:30:58:00 – 00:31:24:29
Richard Carthon: There’s just there’s people out there, but you don’t want to partner with because there are criminals and that’s be with us. Be careful who you speak of, who you, who you partner with. And so those things are, I think, important if you build companies which are in the blockchain space. So don’t be don’t rush it and think about the whereabouts of the doubt.
00:31:25:01 – 00:31:31:06
Richard Carthon: I think that’s a great final thought for everyone building in this space. It’s OK to move slowly if it means
00:31:31:08 – 00:31:32:11
Richard Carthon: you’re doing it correctly
00:31:32:18 – 00:31:36:05
Richard Carthon: and you’re protecting yourself and you’re protecting all of those who you’re bringing
00:31:36:07 – 00:31:37:22
Richard Carthon: on board to come on you with
00:31:37:24 – 00:31:41:29
Richard Carthon: your journey to hopefully build the next greatest crypto and blockchain project in the space
00:31:42:16 – 00:31:50:11
Richard Carthon: through security audits on your software. Don’t just build something and put it out there and see if it works. That’s not nice for the people.
00:31:52:24 – 00:32:00:12
Richard Carthon: But sure, it now would definitely appreciate that. But again, you know, appreciate your time. What are ways that people can connect with you and learn more about kill?
00:32:02:02 – 00:32:31:25
Richard Carthon: Well, we do have a Telegram site, as far as I know, we do have Twitter. It’s all called protocol, basically. So we have a website is filtered out very good starting point for thinking of or connecting with us. If you want to develop, I think that’s the most important thing. Also, go to Death Dot kilowatt hour, where you find all the developer documentation that you need to start building great things on top of killed. Yeah, I think those are the most important.
00:32:32:15 – 00:32:47:05
Richard Carthon: OK, perfect. Awesome. Walk, Ingo. Thank you again. So much for spending some time with us and for everyone listening. Stay cryptocurrency. Hey, cryptocurrency crew, we want to give a quick shout out to all of our faithful listeners out there. It’s been an amazing journey and we really appreciate your support
00:32:47:07 – 00:32:48:24
Richard Carthon: throughout the years as we’ve been growing
00:32:48:26 – 00:33:01:01
Richard Carthon: as a community. Each episode, we decided that we would start sharing some of the reviews that you were leaving for us for today. We would like to share this review. Today’s review comes from Josh Crist. Whether you’re well-established as someone who can translate creative
00:33:01:03 – 00:33:02:07
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00:33:02:09 – 00:33:33:12
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00:33:33:29 – 00:34:04:05
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00:35:05:23 – 00:35:08:01
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00:35:12:27 – 00:35:47:17
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