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00:00:41:02 – 00:01:09:23

Steve: All right, everybody. We’re going to get into our next panel here in just a moment. So if you are in the networking space and you’d like to come back over for this exciting panel on Defi, we’re going to get this thing started for you. Please join me in welcoming to the stage Michael Johnstone, the CEO of my city, Mo Amad, the Web3 engineer, and Dao and Keifer Jennings, an analyst at Arcade Ventures. Please give them a warm round of applause.

00:01:19:01 – 00:01:23:14

Keifer Jennings: Good afternoon, everyone. How are you? All right? Yeah.

00:01:23:18 – 00:01:42:06

Michael Johnstone: Yeah. Great to be here with everybody. Great to be here with the two of you also. He said, I’m Michael Johnson. Excited to be here with Kiefer and Mo. I think before we start digging into Defi, I’ll take just a moment to let each of you introduce yourselves. Let us know what you’re doing now and how you got into the space. Kiefer, do you wanna go first?

00:01:42:14 – 00:02:12:10

Keifer Jennings: Sure. So my name is Kiefer Jennings. I’m an analyst with Arcade Ventures. It’s a small venture capital fund on a chain called IE6. We use node inflation to fund our ventures. We’re currently developing an NFT project, and hopefully more to come. I’ve been in been doing this since January of this year. I’ve been in the crypto space since 2020. Previously, I was a utility scale project developer in the utility space for energy.

00:02:13:25 – 00:02:14:13

Momin Ahmad: That’s great, Mo.

00:02:14:20 – 00:02:37:19

Momin Ahmad: Yeah, I was a moment, Amod. Most people just call me Mo. Currently, I’m a Web three engineer at a project called Debt Down that does building structured debt products for other daos and a permissionless manner. Before that, I was with a company called Creed Mark, and they were building essentially data APIs for on chain data. And overall, I’ve been involved in the space since 2018.

00:02:39:10 – 00:02:42:14

Michael Johnstone: It’s great, you know. It’s great to be here with both of you.

00:02:45:17 – 00:02:46:23

Momin Ahmad: Hmm. All right.

00:02:47:16 – 00:02:54:11

Michael Johnstone: Let’s see. The defi market is supposed to have at least 77 billion in assets today.

00:02:56:12 – 00:03:07:13

Michael Johnstone: That makes it a mid-sized bank in the US, I think ranks around number 38 and total size. So not small, not the biggest, but growing rapidly, probably growing faster than any other bank

00:03:09:04 – 00:03:24:20

Michael Johnstone: if it were one bank. There’s a lot of moving parts of it. I think one of the places that will be great to start is actually just laying out a framework for what is Defi. I love to understand where you think the boundaries are. Where does it drop off or dip into other parts of crypto?

00:03:25:19 – 00:03:38:23

Keifer Jennings: So one interesting way to start this out is asking the audience a question here. If a five year old were to ask you right now, what is money? Could you reliably answer that question? Put your hand up if you think so.

00:03:40:10 – 00:04:16:06

Keifer Jennings: One person to two. Okay, a few of you. All right, So before we start talking about what is Defi and what is decentralized finance, what is money is a big question that we need to be asking ourselves. And, you know, there’s two functions of money. One, the store of value, too. Can it be easily identified and transacted with. If you want to purchase something else, crypto has got the store of value side in spades. We’ve got great fundamentals. We’re like the WNBA and real money, which is like dollar zero.

00:04:16:08 – 00:04:48:29

Keifer Jennings: It’s readily accepted everywhere, even if they don’t have the store of value down. And you know, our big question is how do we build up our fan base for the WNBA so we can start making the real bucks like the NBA itself? And I think part of that comes in like the moments of experiencing things like Defi. You can give the technical definition for it, but until you really experience it, you don’t know what it is like. There are some people here in the audience who might be old enough to remember the first time their debit card was able to buy them something on the weekend that they previously never could.

00:04:49:15 – 00:05:23:18

Keifer Jennings: Previously, they use a debit card to withdraw cash and hope it was enough for the weekend. And that was how everyone used debit cards when they first came out. And then one day you ran out of cash and you actually used it on the weekend. It was like, Whoa, I can just use this instead. And now most of us who are my age or younger probably don’t even carry cash. We just have a debit card and a credit card. I tell you, the last time we touched a $20 bill, whereas my grandma still balances her her checking account by hand at the end of every month to make sure that like it’s all in a line, whereas you would never think about doing that.

00:05:23:20 – 00:06:02:00

Keifer Jennings: And you know, what is your moment in Defi? And that’s a moment where you’ve gotten to use Defi and it was better than cash. I remember once I’m a big degenerate in the crypto space, it was 4 a.m. and I needed to borrow $3,000 to participate in an Estonian NFT project at launch. And I was like, Where am I going to get $3,000 from? And I hopped on a crypto lending platform, decentralized and no credit check, no nothing. I was like, Here is my ease and there’s my usdc and there’s the interest rate at the time was crazy, was like I was like 41%,

00:06:04:19 – 00:06:35:05

Keifer Jennings: but it was only for three days. And being able to use it and have it work seamlessly and then pay it off and having made money was something you can’t do in the real sector. And that was my real experience where I was like, Oh, this is what Defi is. And you know, as it expands, you’ve heard examples today of decentralized real estate, a bar that you can own through crypto. It’s turning what were previously brick and mortar financial operations into on chain financial operations to snap a finger.

00:06:36:26 – 00:07:08:06

Momin Ahmad: Great. Yeah. There’s a football set. Yeah. For me, I think to that last point you said for me, Defi is, is the standardization of how the world engages with each other in terms of money since crypto transcends boundaries. You know, when I use Uniswap, it’s the exact same experience as someone else using it to swap, I guess barring, you know, various VPN issues here in the U.S. That notwithstanding, I can I can trade on the NYSE. People in the rest of the world can’t.

00:07:08:08 – 00:07:36:29

Momin Ahmad: But in crypto and in defi that those barriers theoretically shouldn’t be there. And because it’s not we’re not operating under, you know, various jurisdictions. The rules of the game are dictated by it, like things like you said, like high interest rates, algorithmic interest rates, and those are allowed to sort of set the rules. Again, theoretically in practice, I think we’ve seen that sometimes those things can can go a little, little askew. But for me, that’s kind of what defi means.

00:07:38:09 – 00:07:45:24

Michael Johnstone: Super interesting Q4. I wanted to go back to one thing you said. You know, a lot of what you talked about was about the assets.

00:07:47:11 – 00:08:16:23

Michael Johnstone: But in your story, the thing that I took away was the intermediary is completely different in Defi than it is with regular currency. Do you include in your definition of defi all digital assets as well as the intermediary as a replacement of existing traditional finance intermediaries? Or do you see it more as the technology and the the systems that power those transactions?

00:08:17:04 – 00:08:49:02

Momin Ahmad: I think it’s definitely the technology and the systems, because if you were to make a metaphor to the traditional system, no one would consider a $5 bill to be finance, like it’s just an object. But if you go to the bank and you take a loan out, suddenly it’s finance. If you start a business loan, a small business loan, you buy a house, you buy a car, then it becomes finance. And, you know, Defi is it’s more of the protocols and the systems and the technology that actually makes it defi. Bitcoin by itself is it’s just a $5 bill.

00:08:49:04 – 00:08:49:21

Momin Ahmad: But online.

00:08:50:12 – 00:08:55:11

Michael Johnstone: Before we move on, was it a profitable transaction even with the 40% interest rate varied.

00:08:56:01 – 00:08:56:16

Momin Ahmad: Yeah.

00:08:56:18 – 00:08:57:03

Keifer Jennings: Okay.

00:08:58:02 – 00:08:59:00

Keifer Jennings: I miss last year.

00:09:01:19 – 00:09:10:16

Michael Johnstone: Mo, do you have any particular story that stands out for you in your own experience with sci fi, something that really illustrates the value you see or the future?

00:09:11:09 – 00:09:45:27

Momin Ahmad: I think just how easily I was able to onboard myself, if I imagined when I was trying to use like TD Ameritrade to trade stocks and understanding that my, my, my learning curve for getting for using uniswap for using any any on chain protocol was a lot easier. And maybe that’s just a factor of of who I am. But I thought that how quickly I was able to learn and then adapt and then be accepted within the community was was different from how I perceived that same experience in traditional finance.

00:09:47:00 – 00:10:11:21

Michael Johnstone: Interesting. I think a lot of people would say something similar about Web3 in general. You know, we talk a lot about Web3 being early. Obviously it’s growing at a more rapid rate sort of each year. Whether we’re talking about interoperability, we’re talking about in fees or we’re talking about decentralized finance. I’m curious, what projects do you think are ahead of the curve that are delivering value for people today?

00:10:13:13 – 00:10:48:16

Keifer Jennings: So right now it’s an interesting time to watch and defy it because, you know, I think a few years ago the decentralized lending was where that was, where the new curve is, what was what the new thing was. And right now we’re seeing a lot of like tokenization of real estate and real world assets that were typically financial assets in a lot of ways. And watching how that integrates with the brick and mortar governmental systems, for instance, because let’s say you tokenize a deed of a home, for instance, and you have a legal dispute about the home.

00:10:48:26 – 00:11:21:12

Keifer Jennings: Ultimately, the county clerk’s office and the county courthouse are the ones you’re are going to actually have to be the legal intermediaries, legal intermediary that are handling that. And how do we get them to both recognize and understand that there is a token holder that they have to represent and not a person with a real ID? And as we watch real estate become integrated with these systems, I think that’s where we’re going to see the current bleeding edge of Defi at the moment. And there is definitely a few great real estate protocols earlier today that we’ve heard from.

00:11:23:08 – 00:11:28:15

Momin Ahmad: Yeah. For me, I think projects that that push value towards

00:11:30:04 – 00:12:01:24

Momin Ahmad: other projects that are building useful products I think is where I’m at. So like Curve for example, has created this like really cool. I mean I’m not seeing anything new here, but yeah, Curve has created this is model where, where they’ve incentivized people to put liquidity into projects that they believe in through their their gamified system. And I think if you look at the curve pools, you’ll see that the projects, the pools that have the deepest liquidity are often tied to projects that have been the most successful in creating useful financial products.

00:12:04:15 – 00:12:06:09

Michael Johnstone: Interesting. Have you used it personally?

00:12:06:19 – 00:12:29:22

Momin Ahmad: Kurth Yeah. Oh, yeah. All the time. I if I’m an LP somewhere, I’m going to LP and Curve because I don’t have to worry about impermanent loss. I like the different rewards I get from Curb Itself from the projects that are incentivizing LP Incur Fools. I think I think all those factors make curve like one of the more interesting projects for me personally.

00:12:31:06 – 00:13:03:03

Keifer Jennings: I also like to hop in and make a few comments about Curve as well, because one interesting thing that Defi has done is it copies existing functions that we might have never had access to as individuals and creates them on chain where we can have access to them. Like the closest allegory to curve in the real world is the current central banks that operate like Bank of Japan, the Federal Reserve, the ECB. They have swap desks that are very similar to curve that they can use separate from the actual, you know, like what we would call the regular trading market.

00:13:03:05 – 00:13:32:21

Keifer Jennings: Like if you use Uniswap or another market maker, for instance, you’re affecting liquidity and prices, but on curve, most of the assets are fairly flat in price and you’re not changing the market as you enter. And that was a function that previously only central banks had access to. And now US regular degenerates can log in at 3 a.m. or whenever it is that we do all our dirt and go on curve or wherever. And it’s it’s beautiful watching these functions. Be, I’d say, democratize for the public.

00:13:33:26 – 00:13:37:28

Keifer Jennings: Interesting. Regular degenerate may be an oxymoron, but

00:13:39:18 – 00:13:54:21

Michael Johnstone: I am curious. You talked about de genes entering. No. I’ll ask you first. If somebody is not active in Defi or not active in Web3 at all and they come to you and start asking questions, where do you recommend that they start?

00:13:57:12 – 00:13:58:04

Momin Ahmad: Um.

00:13:59:20 – 00:14:19:11

Momin Ahmad: I think it’s, you know, just asking about crypto. What’s cool is if you ask about crypto in general, that term is so broad now it almost necessitates the next question of like, okay, what do you mean in crypto? Do you mean bitcoin? You mean nfts? You mean like defi? Do you mean Ethereum defi salon defi? So you know, if someone were to ask me about Defi in particular,

00:14:20:27 – 00:14:33:03

Momin Ahmad: I think I think understanding an exchange like Uniswap and a lending protocol like, like average compound is like the most, you know, principle building block, you could start with at least that. That’s where I tell people to go.

00:14:34:10 – 00:14:35:21

Michael Johnstone: So you start with education?

00:14:35:24 – 00:14:36:14

Momin Ahmad: Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:38:06 – 00:14:39:02

Michael Johnstone: What about you, Kiefer?

00:14:39:22 – 00:15:14:15

Keifer Jennings: Yeah. I tend to start with protocols like Ava or Maker, where there is on chain landing. Especially Ava is great because the interest rates are transparent. You can see, you know, why the interest is where it is. You know, it’s based on how much liquidity is provided and how much is being borrowed at any given moment. So it’s a lot more open and understandable for people to look at and say, oh, that’s why the interest rates going up, because people are borrowing now. Whereas if you go to the bank, it’s harder to explain to someone that, you know, the Federal Reserve is tightening their assets and that’s why your mortgage has gone up.

00:15:14:21 – 00:15:23:17

Keifer Jennings: It doesn’t really compute as well with people. Whereas on chain, I think it’s very straightforward and it’s like number go down, interest rate go up. You know.

00:15:25:27 – 00:15:43:21

Michael Johnstone: Interesting. Is there any product, defi product that somebody could come in and adopt today that they would get benefit out of that doesn’t require research? Or is it strictly more of a financial product that people are going to have to ramp up on before they could get active?

00:15:45:11 – 00:15:48:10

Keifer Jennings: So, you know, define a research, right?

00:15:49:15 – 00:16:10:12

Michael Johnstone: I mean, I think you both just laid out the case. The first place you would send people is to read up. I mean, you can call it what you want, but the average consumer doesn’t do that for most of their purchases. If they do, they read a few bullets to justify the purchase they’ve already decided to make or the place they’ve decided to go. I’m just wondering, is there any easy entry point for anyone in Defi today, or are we still a ways from that?

00:16:10:22 – 00:16:44:18

Keifer Jennings: So I think people for the complete lame and they really need to understand how to sign a transaction on crypto, how to verify where it’s going to verify the address, make sure it goes from point A to point B, understanding gas fees and how much it’s going to charge each time you want to sign a new transaction. And so, you know, once they understand all of that stuff, it’s fairly straightforward to say, like, you go here, you deposit usdc, you say in a vault and you gain four and a half percent or whatever the prevailing interest happens to be at the time, or if it’s an hour as you gain 78% interest, it really just depends.

00:16:44:21 – 00:16:53:08

Keifer Jennings: But I you know, when you say research, I want to make sure that people, if they understand blockchain and how to navigate from there, it’s fairly straightforward to understand a new protocol.

00:16:54:04 – 00:17:21:24

Momin Ahmad: I just tend to tell people who are if they’re that new to the industry, I just tell them to hold Ethereum really up. I think that’s the easiest, simplest way to to for someone who’s new to the industry to be exposed to any any good value, just because I think anything else on top of Ethereum probably requires you understand how Ethereum works somewhat. So yeah, that’s kind of where I start.

00:17:22:04 – 00:17:50:21

Michael Johnstone: That’s fair. And I think I mean, Ethereum, as you were just described, has its own entry point. Just being able to create a wallet, buying it takes a certain amount of work on its own before you get there. If you move away from the consumer to the the business side or even the kind of interoperability side between projects, is there anything there that’s delivering value for other other projects, other companies, other protocols in the space? Anything that stands out for you?

00:17:51:07 – 00:18:18:14

Momin Ahmad: I recently started looking at index co-op index coop. They’re like a defi protocol that’s building various indexes based on just different categories. And I particularly liked their data index, which was an index of of coins whose protocols specify a specialize in data delivery. So things like the graph and a couple of others. And I think bucketing

00:18:20:05 – 00:18:46:08

Momin Ahmad: coins into into into buckets like that can really help adoption going forward. It’s easier for me to understand are you for that or an individual understand like, okay, these, this index is specifically trading data. And so, you know, I don’t know maybe how. An individual token or protocol works by understand that data is important. So I’m going to I’m going to invest in this in this data index. And so I’m really into what they’re doing index go up.

00:18:47:26 – 00:19:25:15

Keifer Jennings: So when we start talking about the business side of Defi, one thing that’s fairly valuable to a lot of corporate entities is confidentiality in some form or another. And I know we’re all here as degenerates. We’re talking about public blockchains, but a lot of private blockchains end up being what delivers the value to corporate entities, especially if they want to, you know, start tokenizing some of the things they doing. Before I left the utility energy space, I had been dabbling with a company whose name is totally escaping me right now. But what they did is they created their own private blockchain and they were dealing with oil companies specifically to tokenize contracts for asset deliveries.

00:19:26:15 – 00:19:56:24

Keifer Jennings: And so one of the values this provided for businesses was you could get invoiced directly on delivery. So you might like normally in the business world there’s like a 30 and net 30 in that 45 and that 60 payment cycle. So you might, let’s say, deliver oil and everybody knows it’s been delivered, but you don’t get paid for one month, two months. And so for certain contractors, there’s a significant value in getting paid right away. And then even beyond that, there’s a lot of.

00:19:58:20 – 00:20:29:12

Keifer Jennings: Okay, this sounds bad, but there’s a lot of people who are doing things that could definitely be automated and freeing that labor for other things. And, you know, you hear that and you think layoffs, but like if you’ve ever dealt with a procurement department in business and you know, this can all be. Pushed on chain. And there’s 60 people who are verifying contracts, check sums and signing off on things. You know, it does create like a fairly significant value add for businesses to be able to turn that to blockchain, especially since blockchain can be auditable like that.

00:20:29:14 – 00:21:00:28

Keifer Jennings: So you’re not going through a significant auditing process where you’ve got to bring in an outside committee and you’re asking the project developers to pull 19 random invoices that they don’t even know where they are hidden in a data room somewhere. And so a lot of the value to business I see right now is in expediting a lot of processes that are labor intensive or time intensive that can be easily verified and agreed upon ahead of time. But you can turn the entire terms of a contract into a smart contract.

00:21:01:03 – 00:21:20:06

Keifer Jennings: And if everyone agrees on the contract at the start, there’s no there’s no room for major disputes at the end, especially if, say, you’ve got a sensor on a pipeline just measuring cubic footage of oil passing through the pipeline. You can invoice essentially instantaneously. And that’s significant value for businesses.

00:21:22:03 – 00:21:51:06

Michael Johnstone: Yeah. It reminded me that, you know, Walmart, Canada implemented blockchain. Private blockchain is a great case study. I won’t go into all of it here, but to solve for a lot of those specific problems, there are a lot of contractors, subcontractors, invoice payment terms. It’s difficult to keep track of what things were delivered on which days and when people should be paid. They implemented a system that solved for quite a bit of that, completely verifiable. It’s worth a read if anybody’s interested in that space.

00:21:51:20 – 00:22:30:22

Keifer Jennings: Absolutely. I’ve got one anecdote to add that people might find funny. There was a man who was arrested recently. He had been sending invoices to Facebook and Google that just said for currency transactions and Facebook and Google didn’t know what the invoices are for. These are companies who probably spend upwards of, you know, maybe ten figures a year. They just paid the invoices. No idea. And this guy was getting away with it for five years. If this was on blockchain, it never would have happened. But when you’ve got a department that’s getting probably 700 invoices a day, it’s easy for things to slip through the cracks if it’s going to just based on human auditing.

00:22:30:24 – 00:22:35:20

Keifer Jennings: So moving that stuff to private blockchain is a significant value add for businesses.

00:22:36:14 – 00:23:11:16

Michael Johnstone: So it was the Google, and I’m sure it’s more than 700 invoices a day. But but I get the point. The brings up something else I think about a lot, though. It’s easy for us to laugh at those kind of mistakes, to look at the wasted energy, just reporting and passing that reporting from one company to another. But there’s a there are some downsides to the blockchain. You say that could never happen. And there I think anybody in this room who’s been watching web3 and fees or cryptocurrency for a week, you know, much less, you know, half a year complained a lot of scams, a lot of bad actors and a lot of bad things that have happened.

00:23:12:11 – 00:23:20:10

Michael Johnstone: We can also look at the traditional market. A high frequency trading has its own impact on the stock market and the value of companies.

00:23:22:17 – 00:23:40:24

Michael Johnstone: Where do you think the place for regulation is in defi? I think in that same example, the government can go and prosecute that person, potentially reclaim that money. Does that exist in Defi or is everybody just on their own in the future? And we hope that it someday it’s perfect enough that nobody can scam it.

00:23:41:28 – 00:24:21:17

Momin Ahmad: So regulation and KYC are both dirty words, especially to complete degenerates like me, but there is most definitely a space for that. You know, when you start talking about regulatory entities in the first panel, I always said there are 17 chapters behind. I tend to agree. They typically don’t know what’s going on right now. And rather than just kind of shutting them out and saying like, I want to be an outlaw in the Wild West, riding my horse, I’m a cowpoke. Instead, I do think there is room for compromise as we begin to start teaching regulators like, Hey, this is what’s going on, This is what this means, this is how you write, this is how you take ownership on this chain.

00:24:21:26 – 00:24:36:04

Momin Ahmad: And getting them to onboard certain features. And personally, I don’t know how we do that, but I think it does have to start with a decent bit of lobbying and a willingness on our side to kind of like take the black flag down just a little bit and walk forward with a handshake first and see if that works.

00:24:37:01 – 00:24:49:19

Michael Johnstone: It’s funny to hear somebody pushing for a completely decentralized world, referring to lobbying and trying to get the government to change things. But I’m curious, what do you think? Do we need lobbyists?

00:24:50:09 – 00:24:54:17

Momin Ahmad: Oh, I don’t know about lobbyists or maybe more.

00:24:54:19 – 00:24:55:19

Michael Johnstone: The general question, then.

00:24:55:22 – 00:25:00:08

Momin Ahmad: I think one interesting thing that happened in the last week was compound voted to.

00:25:00:10 – 00:25:00:25

Momin Ahmad: Remove.

00:25:00:27 – 00:25:31:15

Keifer Jennings: Three tokens because of various metrics they didn’t like. And I assume that they were going to be like Bitcoin had tokens, but they weren’t. It was like Maker zero X and a couple other tokens that surprised me. And so I think that was a positive sign and that I think protocols are set up inherently to regulate themselves or even in take outside suggestions or research in order to better protect themselves from malicious attacks.

00:25:32:15 – 00:25:34:27

Keifer Jennings: I think there is room for regulations in the sense that

00:25:36:17 – 00:25:56:19

Michael Johnstone: someone from the SEC could theoretically be on the council that puts forth proposals and compound or whatever. But I don’t think having. Then SEC like group governance. The entirety of Defi makes sense from where I sit. But there’s definitely room for compromise.

00:25:57:03 – 00:26:27:23

Keifer Jennings: Yeah, I definitely agree. And one thing I think people should think about is what is the purpose of the justice system? And, you know, after meditating on it, my thought was the purpose of the justice system is to lift the burden of vengeance from the shoulders of people aggrieved. And so let’s say we’re in blockchain and we’ve tokenized a business and someone’s figured out a way to write malicious code to send a false transaction to us. I think I’m signing to Mint. Hello Kitty.

00:26:27:25 – 00:27:06:13

Keifer Jennings: NFT And instead I’ve just transferred a I don’t know, an NFT that represents a $9 million real world real world asset. If there is no justice system in place that can be fallen back on this kind of devolves into like lynch mobs fairly quickly. And so I think that’s the one benefit that we we need to think about when we ask ourselves, like, why are we trying to walk forward with a handshake first? Why are we trying to get regulators on board so they can understand, you know, on chain data itself and so they can understand like what is a malicious transaction or what isn’t.

00:27:06:20 – 00:27:15:15

Keifer Jennings: And how we define those things. I don’t know the answer to, but I do think it’s worth a try just to avoid, you know, Wild West justice per se.

00:27:15:27 – 00:27:46:19

Michael Johnstone: So I know a lot of people won’t agree, but I think a lot of what’s a malicious transaction is already defined. We just haven’t come to terms with what that means in the blockchain space, you know, But theft is theft and theft on the blockchain also still theft. But I think you brought up a great point. There’s a difference between regulation and the justice system, and there’s probably a place for both in cryptocurrency and decentralized finance. But sometimes we talk about it all as one amorphous blob.

00:27:46:29 – 00:28:02:02

Momin Ahmad: And there may be better cases for one than the other. You know, we’re just about out of time. Before we leave, I’d love to know what each of you think. What’s coming in the next 6 to 12 months will have impact in the defi space. Marie, you want to go first?

00:28:02:09 – 00:28:44:10

Momin Ahmad: Well, I’m going to be very biased because I think at that time I was working on is is exactly what the space needs now. But in all seriousness, the were that I was working to build is the structured debt products. And what that means is, all right now all debt is over collateralized for the most part, especially on chain. And at that time, we’ve built some solutions that will allow Daos to leverage their cash flow to borrow on collateralized. And I think that’s going to do a lot of good in terms of allowing projects that are succeeding, who have built products that actually are used and generate generate income to allow them to grow their businesses, much like a business in the traditional finance world, would easily do that right now.

00:28:44:12 – 00:29:02:25

Momin Ahmad: So I’m really excited for what we’ve got. And I think when we launch the next few months, you’ll see a lot of a lot of the more successful projects jump on pretty quickly and start shifting debt away from what it has been in Defi towards what we’ve come to expect in the traditional finance world.

00:29:03:09 – 00:29:04:18

Michael Johnstone: And. Is there a launch date?

00:29:06:05 – 00:29:07:03

Momin Ahmad: I’m.

00:29:08:22 – 00:29:18:23

Momin Ahmad: We’ll have a couple launches relatively soon. But as far as like open to the whole world, I think sometime early next year, maybe the end of this year. So no promises, though.

00:29:19:03 – 00:29:21:02

Michael Johnstone: All right. We’ll stay tuned. How about you, Kiefer?

00:29:22:04 – 00:30:00:17

Keifer Jennings: So obviously, I’m looking forward to a bull market. But if we’re going to be really honest, I think I’m looking forward to the interoperability space the most. You know, the one thing that we’re missing out on, on blockchain is the easy way to transact and communicate cross-chain without having to go to a centralized exchange. And, you know, it is a bit of a bit annoying to say like, let’s say you want to move ether from one person to another because you want to borrow on another chain. And if there happens to be no bridge and you have to go to a centralized exchange, it’s a taxable transaction, just, you know, selling the ether for the layer one, moving it over there.

00:30:00:24 – 00:30:36:01

Keifer Jennings: And all you really want to do is borrow. You’re not making a real taxable transaction there, but it still appears as one. And, you know, also we have a lot of defi protocols that are kind of siloed or island ID and they would benefit significantly from being able to talk and leverage collateral like across chain also leveraging assets. Cross-chain. And I think as that space opens up and the ability for like clients to become cheaper gas wise or to function through layer zero, like the gentleman from two panels that I mentioned, I think we start to see another significant growth in the blockchain space.

00:30:37:07 – 00:30:46:02

Michael Johnstone: And Scrabble. McKeever I want to thank you both for being here today. Michael Johnstone is great. Thank you all for attending. And I think that’s around for us.

00:30:46:17 – 00:30:48:02

Keifer Jennings: Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

00:30:52:14 – 00:30:55:05

Momin Ahmad: Thank you. Thank you. All right. Another round of applause real quick.

00:30:55:13 – 00:31:03:15

Steve: We are going to be heading into our final panel of the day in about 10 minutes. So enjoy a quick break and then we will see you here in a minute.

00:31:06:14 – 00:31:29:29

Momin Ahmad: Thank you for joining us for another episode of Cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrencies, a cryptocurrency and blockchain education platform. Bridging the gap between curious newcomers for just discovering the space and the thought leaders for shaping its future. All opinions expressed by Richard Carson. The cricket team and their guests on this show are exclusively their own opinions on this show, and any other crypto print production is exclusively for informational purposes.