Edan Yago joins us to discuss Defi for Bitcoin: trade & lend your Bitcoin on Sovryn.
I am a core contributor to Sovryn, the decentralised Layer 2 Bitcoin trading and lending and asset management platform. Sovryn allows users to trade, leverage, and earn yield by lending. Sovryn extends Bitcoin, building a full suite of decentralised tools and bridging Bitcoin with other aspects of both the traditional economy and DeFi.
Earlier in my career, I founded several other companies in the Bitcoin and crypto space, including CementDAO and Epiphyte, which provided global remittance services.
As an anti-finance financier and radical optimist, I am a passionate advocate for the mass adoption of open, borderless and incorruptible finance.
The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below.
00:01:07:06 – 00:01:25:08
Richard Carthon: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Crypto Current. Your host here, Richard Carthon and today I have a special guest all the way out in the UK working on a really cool project that’s going to allow for some awesome lending backed by Bitcoin and a ton of other amazing features. We have Edan with Sovryn. How are you doing today?
00:01:25:23 – 00:01:26:27
Edan Yago: Doing very well, thanks.
00:01:27:22 – 00:01:35:23
Richard Carthon: Well, glad you could join us. We’re going to unpack everything that you have going on with Sovryn, but before we do that, I want to learn more about you. Can give us some background on yourself?
00:01:36:24 – 00:02:09:28
Edan Yago: Sure. So, I got into Bitcoin because I was reading papers about network science in 2011, I stumbled across the Bitcoin whitepaper and it blew my mind. And I basically abandoned within a relatively short order everything else I was doing to get into Bitcoin. And the reason was I come from a family that has gone through experiences with inflation, contrary experiences, with government confiscation of funds, government trying to take our liberties in various ways. I had to smuggle gold as a child for a while just to get money to my family.
00:02:10:09 – 00:02:45:16
Edan Yago: When I came across the Bitcoin white paper, I realized this was going to be more valuable than the internet itself because what it did is it created property rights for the internet. The first digital property rights and the implications of that are huge. And so, one of the weird things to me has been that people do not, you know, people talk about all kinds of things in the Crypto space, world, computers, scarcity. But this fundamental idea that what we’re actually doing is creating digital rights and specifically digital property rights, I think, is the foundation on top of which everything else is built.
00:02:46:12 – 00:03:21:19
Richard Carthon: That’s really cool that you bring that up. You’re one of the first to kind of bring it in that landscape and also through that lens. I definitely want to kind of unpack that a bit more. So again, you got in around 2011, you have the experience just in regular world having to provide for your family, whether it be through gold, seeing inflation and then basically you decided I’m all in on this, I’m going to find a way to to get in. You’ve been in this thing for a decade, kind of walk us through how you solve this as being more of a store, kind of like you said this property and how it’s kind of evolved into now of what you built over at Sovryn, right?
00:03:21:21 – 00:03:55:03
Edan Yago: So, maybe we should start with a bit of a mystery, right? So, the internet’s been around now and popular for about 25 years. Everyone predicted that the internet would massively increase economic productivity front. Everyone’s now connected and everything can be formed into data. The information flows you would expect to see massive productivity growth, massive economic growth, but what we’ve actually experienced over the last 20 years is stagnation in productivity growth. This seems really weird.
00:03:55:25 – 00:04:36:22
Edan Yago: Now, if you ask a typical Bitcoin why this is happening, and I’ll tell you, it’s because the Fiat system is corrupt because governments introduce misspending and misallocation of resources. And all of that is true, but we also had that before, right? So, you would think that introducing a technology like the intimate would at least all things being equal, improve, but what we’ve seen instead is a relatively small number of companies and a relatively small number of CEOs become incredibly wealthy through tech companies. But most economic growth stagnate. Most people, in many ways, doing less well. So, this is a mystery. Why did this happen?
00:04:37:09 – 00:05:12:06
Edan Yago: And I think there’s actually a very simple reason for why this happened. And that reason is that the internet is 21st century technology, right? But it’s married to Iron Age political economic technology, right? There are no property rights and we are basically all serfs, right? The land barons are Mark Zuckerberg and, you know, Jeff Bezos and we get to exist in their space. But if we say something about vaccinations which they don’t like, they can kick us off Twitter.
00:05:12:15 – 00:05:42:13
Edan Yago: We don’t get to accrue any value for the work that we’re doing. And you know, this isn’t just social media, it’s also like the games that we play, right? So like, even Line, you don’t actually own anything, you can build an entire empire, but you can’t take any of it off. And so, what you end up with is a system with 21st century technology, but the economic structure of the Soviet Union. And so, as a result, all of this economic growth that we would expect to see, this productivity growth that we would expect to see, and this improvement in people’s lives that we would expect to see hasn’t happened.
00:05:42:24 – 00:06:47:02
Edan Yago: And if you think about what the Soviet Union was, the Soviet Union was 20th century technology or industrial technology married with Iron Age economic thinking, and it collapsed. So, the reason Bitcoin and digital property rights is so exciting is because it’s for the first time we marry 21st century technology, the internet with 21st century economic and political structures, the ability to protect digital rights and not just protected civil rights, but protect property rights in a way which is borderless, like the internet and which also doesn’t require violence but only requires cryptography, which is a huge improvement. And what has been the result? The result has been that in 12 years, we’ve gone from zero to a two trillion dollar industry, 100 different unicorns, different projects are worth over a billion dollars and nation states adopting this, and we’re only at the beginning. We are now, at the very beginning of the greatest period of wealth creation that humanity will ever experience, and it’s because we have this new frontier, the internet, which was like discovering America, right?
00:06:47:10 – 00:07:11:26
Edan Yago: And what made America so wealthy is not that they just discovered new land, but they also had property rights and freedoms. So, we’ve got like our new America. Our generation has a new America. The difference is that our America is the digital space, and it’s infinite. There’s no end to this frontier. So, it’s a very, very exciting time to be alive, but it would never have happened if Satoshi Nakamoto hadn’t invented the ability to create digital property rights.
00:07:12:21 – 00:07:47:24
Richard Carthon: You gave us a lot to unpack there, and I just want to unpack a couple of things. And man, for everyone listening, go ahead and run that back. A lot of great gems just dropped in there, and the one that really spoke to me through that was the concept of the internet, right? And in the 21st century technology, but using old Iron Fist types of ways of going about it. And when you think about the ecosystems that have even been built on Web 2.0, the internet, if you will, even though the internet is supposed to be this infinite thing, there’s only a few worlds that you really live in and because they’re dominated, they want to keep you in the ecosystem.
00:07:47:26 – 00:08:38:07
Richard Carthon: And like you said, you can come provide all this value, but you don’t have any of the equity of that platform that’s been made. Whereas, exactly like with the Bitcoin and why I also believe this is a great as wealth generation that we’re ever going to see because finite supply, because of scarcity, because of being able to be borderless in something that anyone can own and can be used anywhere as an exchange of value in all of these other things, like you said, because of everything being infinite. Now the world’s become a lot larger and there’s a lot of different spaces people can come in and have true impact, and that is what is going to continue to drive all of this value that is going to be made. It’s the new age financial system. I mean, we like something that’s being disrupted.
00:08:38:15 – 00:08:59:01
Richard Carthon: I mean, there’s two problems that I also want to add to kind of what you just said is that property standpoint of like, you own this, but is also shaking up an entire financial institution that has been changed in thousands of years, as you really think about it. So I mean, thanks for sharing that, but also just what’s your take on that as well? Like, how is also disrupting the financial side of things?
00:08:59:24 – 00:09:35:00
Edan Yago: So, I think the financial side is only one part of it, right? So, what we’re really fundamentally doing is recreating an entire socio political system, right? We’re creating the institutions which protect our freedoms and the institutions that have protected our freedoms for the last 5,000 years and been institutions based on violence. And sometimes they’ve been better and sometimes they’ve been worse, but they’ve been based on this idea of borders and violence. The internet created this infinite frontier, right?
00:09:35:02 – 00:10:07:21
Edan Yago: Connecting all the people in the world, and it made as a result, the borders irrelevant. Cryptography made the violence irrelevant, but our current institutions haven’t caught up to that idea. In fact, they never will. What we are doing with Bitcoin worth the entire Crypto space is we are actually creating the institutions of the future that we, our children, our grandchildren and the generations that will come after will live in. This is great power, but it also is a great responsibility and we should take it very, very seriously.
00:10:08:13 – 00:11:15:01
Richard Carthon: I think the right way to think about this is not as decentralized finance, but as decentralizing society, decentralized institutions. And I think one interesting way to think about that is, you know, Bitcoin is the world’s first global institution, right? It’s the first institution which all people in the world participate in, which treats all people in the world equally and tries to give all people in the world equal access to. And this particular institution is an institution for the creation of sound money, but on top of that, we can build other institutions, which are also designed to be global and take advantage of this new way of thinking about how you coordinate people. If you think about what a Blockchain is, a Blockchain is a method of coming to consensus, right? It’s the Blockchain isn’t what’s important, what’s important is the consensus. The Blockchain is a tool, the consensus is the product, and that is very, very exciting. The ability to scale the way that we interact and benefit each other and cooperate as as individuals.
00:11:15:05 – 00:12:02:11
Richard Carthon: And coming back to this idea of finance that you were describing, the reason that it started with finance is because Bitcoin was a money, and now we’re building on top of that decentralized financial there. When you introduce property rights, you introduce the ability for people to own things and then people as a result, there’s new things of value that can get created. Create new opportunities for innovation, and then the first thing that needs to happen is that this new world of institutions needs to finance itself, and that’s what we’re seeing happening right now. It’s a self-financing revolution. It’s a really remarkable and extremely interesting thing and I wish more people were sort of able to see how big, how important and how exciting what we’re doing is.
00:12:03:08 – 00:12:35:02
Richard Carthon: And honestly, that’s the point of what we have going on with this show is to just introduce these kind of ideas and the concepts that you’re talking about right now. You know, you have to hear some a few different times a few different ways before it, like truly connects. And I really feel like there’s going to be a lot of people that hear what you’re saying, and it’s finding it a click and be like, Yes, this makes perfect sense. Like property, I can grasp that. And that’s why, in a lot of ways, when I talk to people about Bitcoin, whether it’s a store of value, whether it is meant for to be exchanged or there, what have you.
00:12:35:07 – 00:12:55:24
Richard Carthon: However, it’s being used just like you said, it’s giving people the access to make those decisions. You can do what you want with it, but you own it, and that’s the property concept. But I do want to go into what Sovryn is doing. So, with all of that information, with all of that knowledge, how is Sovryn taking the approach that you’re talking about and now giving it back to the world?
00:13:38:17 – 00:13:56:11
Edan Yago: Right. So, if you think about Bitcoin as the base, right? Bitcoin invented this new concept of digital property rights, but it applied. It’s very, very narrow. It applied it only to BTC. Right now, this is not a bug, it’s a feature. Bitcoin did this because Bitcoin wants to have the highest degree of possible consensus.
00:13:56:13 – 00:14:30:21
Edan Yago: And when you are introducing a new rule set, which is what effectively a money is or a new Blockchain is, you want to introduce a few rules as possible so that as many people can come to consensus around them as possible. And that’s the genius of Bitcoin and it’s why Bitcoin has no equal. It’s because Bitcoin is asking so little of you, right? All you need to agree is that if someone sends you Bitcoin, you receive the Bitcoin, that’s it. Now, that said, we want to generalize this principle, we want to be able to provide digital property rights to all types of assets, not just even digital assets.
00:14:30:23 – 00:15:05:10
Edan Yago: We would like to be able to digitize real world assets as well so that we can transact with them in this global marketplace. So, Ethereum has tried to do this. Ethereum and other smart contract platforms tried to generalize the principle through NFTs and through DeFi and through various types of tokens, etc. The problem with those systems is that those systems started off with a misunderstanding of what we are actually doing here in the first place. You know, the idea that, for example, that Ethereum called itself a world computer just goes to illustrate how they misunderstood.
00:15:05:20 – 00:15:39:22
Edan Yago: And Vitalik is an extremely intelligent and thoughtful person that he misunderstood the fundamental thing. But it wasn’t the technology that we were creating, the innovation here was an institution. And there’s a conflict between those two, and the big conflict is that institutions need to lost your entire life, the life of your children, your grandchildren. You’d need to if you’re taking a pension, know that the system, the institution that is protecting your pension, is going to be there for 50 years. If you save in Bitcoin, you need to know that in 100 years or 50 years, you know it’s going to be the same system. Technology works on a completely different logic.
00:15:39:25 – 00:16:04:18
Edan Yago: Technology is constantly changing, constantly evolving, constantly updating. Alright, this does not work as an institution. It’s a tool that institution can use. So, what Sovryn does is Sovryn marries these two ideas. It takes the solid foundations that Bitcoin is and marries to that the idea that you can generalize the principle of property rights and so on, building on top of Bitcoin.
00:16:05:03 – 00:16:34:24
Edan Yago: Sovryn is a layer that extends Bitcoin and allows Bitcoin to effectively take this idea of generalizing property rights to any type of property. And in fact, any type of right. And so, with Sovryn, for example, there’s a system now where two people, the first people who did it, two people got married using the Sovryn system. Their marriage is protected not by the state, but by bettering their systems for trading and borrowing, right? Protected not by a bank, but by Bitcoin.
00:16:35:03 – 00:17:07:15
Edan Yago: There’s a system for governance, which we call the autocracy, which helps govern this institution, which we call Sovryn, protected not by any government, right? But by the Bitcoin miners themselves. I think this is the most exciting thing which could possibly emerge, right? Because you’re marrying all of this innovation that’s happening in smart country platforms to the solid foundation and creating as a result, building on top of Bitcoin and the institutional will revolutionize, which is going to, I think, impact everything that we all do in the future.
00:17:08:16 – 00:17:33:16
Richard Carthon: Definitely. And by having the lens of it being an institution like you said, you want an institution that you are playing the long game for it to be creating that value that you can give to your kids and their grandkids and so on, something that’s going to be here for the long run. And I firmly believe that Bitcoin is not going anywhere in this. And that’s the genius of Bitcoin. It’s designed to be like a law of nature.
00:17:33:18 – 00:17:52:06
Richard Carthon: Block after block after block. Consistent, reliable. I sometimes say, you know, all of these smart contract platforms are software, right? But Bitcoin is not software. Bitcoin is perma where it’s something that is permanent. It’s like hardware written into code. We’ve never had something like that before.
00:17:53:01 – 00:18:15:15
Edan Yago: Yeah, it’s pretty genius. And even the concept of, you know, the last Bitcoin mine is going to be 2140, so well probably past any of our lifetimes. But even past that, because of the visibility Satoshi is everything else you can. It can still be used and you can always go back and trace and follow the entire Blockchain at that point. There’s never been a more transparent financial system, ever.
00:18:15:17 – 00:18:52:24
Edan Yago: I mean, you look at it and I know it’s trying to get away from the financial side of it, but just the financial side is important, right? And we are seeing right now the part that’s easiest for us to concentrate on is the financial side. First of all, because it’s really exciting. You get to get rich, but also because it’s like what we see in front of us, right? You know, when the internet was being built out, someone had to lay fibre optic cable across the world and huge companies were acquired and they raised huge amounts of money to do that. If you hadn’t done that, the internet wouldn’t exist. So right now, with the Crypto space, we’re in the same kind of situation.
00:18:53:02 – 00:19:05:24
Edan Yago: Huge amounts of infrastructure need to be built out. We need the money, right? We need the payment mechanisms like Lightning Network. We need the smart contract mechanisms, etc. We need to integrate these with other parts of our world.
00:19:05:26 – 00:19:50:21
Edan Yago: And then once that happens, you can start integrating them also with things like gaming worlds and virtual environments and decentralized internet decentralized courts. All of these things are higher up in the SEC. And so, what we’re doing now is we’re basically funding the base layers of the stack ourselves, and this economy is so productive. Most of the money that is in Crypto didn’t come from the outside, it was created by Crypto itself because real wealth, real productivity, real innovation happened in the space itself. So, it’s basically funding itself. So, I think that’s the really exciting part about the financing. The financing is just the, you know, if Bitcoin is the seed, then the finance is the water that you pour in the seeds. The tree is only just starting to grow.
00:19:51:05 – 00:20:07:08
Richard Carthon: Absolutely. And even on that note, one of the things that I think will continue to also be important is the concept of stablecoins because of volatility and everything that’s going on and just the ability to be able to get in and out of things. I believe that Sovryn also has an approach to that. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
00:20:07:18 – 00:20:49:16
Edan Yago: That’s right. So, I for a long time thought that if we managed to develop stablecoins, which are decentralized, I’m not talking about Tether or USDC, which could be shut down tomorrow, I’m talking about truly decentralized stablecoins. It’s basically game over and the reason it’s game over is because regular people will be able to start adopting this for day to day. Transactions will never need to go through a bank again. We’ll have an easy on ramp and offer them. It’s basically a replacement for the fundamental way that you reach everyday people in their everyday lives with Crypto, right? Problem is, we haven’t really had a truly decentralized stablecoin, not a reliable one.
00:20:49:20 – 00:21:31:24
Edan Yago: So, MakerDAO was really exciting, but MakerDAO is not true to decentralization anymore. Fifty two percent of the collateral in MakerDAO is USDC, so it’s basically a record for USDC. But what we now have with Sovryn is we are introducing Bitcoin backed stablecoins, and what that means is that people collateralized with Bitcoin, so, the Bitcoin is held like in a vault and you basically take your Bitcoin and you borrow money, you borrow dollars to yourself, right? You’re lending to yourself, right? So, you lock up the Bitcoin and then, the system creates dollars representing and that can be exchanged for Bitcoin, but that Bitcoin just remains as the collateral.
00:21:31:26 – 00:22:24:21
Edan Yago: And now, people can start transacting in a token which is worth a dollar is not volatile in comparison to currencies, but no one can stop your transactions. No one consents for your transactions, it’s fully permission. So for example, one of the first places that we’re working to implement this is with El Salvador, right? Because El Salvador is a country which on the one hand, has Bitcoin as legal tender, but on the other hand, as dollars is legal tender, so they have the permission less sovereignty that Bitcoin gives them and sort of like it’s the dollars given and they marry that together in Bitcoin backed stablecoins. So, I think what we are working to create and we already have like the first example of this is $4 on chain. And as part of that is interest in Sovryn. Know the first true examples of reliable, decentralized, permissionless stablecoins and I think that as a result, we are much, much closer to game over.
00:22:25:27 – 00:23:19:28
Richard Carthon: It’s really interesting that you bring that up, because as people look at stablecoins, a lot of the time, they really forget that they’re not truly decentralized and a lot of ways they’re still I mean, one peg to the dollar, right? And with that and everyone that runs it, a lot of them are still having to report back out to the S.E.C., maybe not US, DTB, USDC, like there’s some trails in there that, like I say, they’re switching. And here you go. But with something like this, just like you said, with it truly being pegged to Bitcoin. And again, if you are able to get that as collateral first, the first inception is to get Bitcoin and then have a place where you can get access to a dollar amount, if you will, to then go and exchange and do other things with it, but then know that you still have this collateral on deck that you can go back and we retrieve at any given point. You literally are financing yourself. You’re almost here, your own bank.
00:23:20:00 – 00:23:32:00
Edan Yago: At that point, we never have to sell Bitcoin again, right? Can just finance, like, if you need to pay rent. Like if I need to pay rent, what I do is I borrow against my back, right? And, you know, I need to pay.
00:23:32:04 – 00:23:55:24
Edan Yago: So, there’s a new project being built on San Summer in itself, is a very young system. It’s been live for less than five months, but it’s growing very, very fast. It’s drawing a lot of intellectual firepower, like, really smart people have started contributing too. The project is totally open-source and decentralized, and a whole bunch of like, independent projects have started working in the over acres. One of them is called Zero Zero.
00:23:55:26 – 00:24:27:15
Edan Yago: It’s a project which is going to be probably launched, probably launching in a few weeks, right? And with Zero, it allows you to collateralize your Bitcoin and borrow against it, give yourself a loan, but you pay zero percent interest. And how can you pay zero percent interest? Because you’re the lender and the borrower, right? So, I want to pay rent, I just put Bitcoin into the system, I borrow against it, and then I can fund all of my day to day activities. In that way, I never need to leave the Bitcoin system ever again, right?
00:24:27:25 – 00:24:45:24
Richard Carthon: So, my initial question to that and because I’m just curious, so, what happens if say a person who’s lending to themselves never pays it back? Is it just that it just will forever stay within the Sovryn ecosystem? Then if they do pay it back, then they can get it back because there’s no interest? I’m just curious, like how that piece of it work?
00:24:45:26 – 00:25:00:08
Edan Yago: Yeah. So, there are dollars that are circulating right now. If everyone never paid back their loans, then at some point there would be a lot of dollars circulating, right? But maybe there wouldn’t be enough demand for those dollars, right? Some people would want to get the Bitcoin back.
00:25:00:21 – 00:25:41:18
Edan Yago: And so, the price of the dollar would start to drop. It wouldn’t drop a lot to a few cents on the dollar, right? But the system has as a mechanism where if it does start to drop, there’s the ability to start effectively liquidating the Bitcoin, so, that people who have these tokens can get Bitcoin out. And so basically, the reason it’s worth a dollar is because you always know that if there is any circumstance you can convert to a dollars worth of Bitcoin. So, that’s why it’s always got the dollar’s value. And so, at some point, you might find yourself in a situation where you do want to pay these loans back, right? Because otherwise you’d basically be drawing down on your Bitcoin, would be like you’d be selling Bitcoin.
00:25:41:20 – 00:26:00:04
Edan Yago: It’s kind of like if you buy a television, right? It’s like Buy now, pay later, right? But it’s actually not clear that we would ever reach the pay later stage, because if there continues to be more and more demand for these dollars, you know, for 10, 20, 30 years, maybe that never happens. So, maybe it’s Buy now, pay, maybe later.
00:26:00:15 – 00:26:10:07
Richard Carthon: Gotcha, okay. And then, the final element of it, I believe you’re also starting to do some launch pads off of Sovryn as well. Are you able to speak to that a little bit?
00:26:10:15 – 00:26:46:26
Edan Yago: Yeah. So, another project is called Origins. Origins is a launchpad, allowing new projects to start launching and raising funds to build on the server ecosystem, to build in the Bitcoin ecosystem, to raise Treasury in the form of Bitcoin and the best currency ever or stablecoins. And a bunch of different projects are signing up to try and do this. So, it’s like a project called Mint Layer, who are also building technologies around DeFi for Bitcoin. There’s decentralized Bitcoin mining pool that is interested. They’re wallet projects and so an entire ecosystem. That’s an amazing thing, right?
00:26:46:28 – 00:27:28:29
Edan Yago: When you create these property rights, a self enforcing system where anyone in the world can be creative, anyone can innovate. And what’s different about Origins is it’s not like an ICO boom where anyone can just go and create what they want. The beauty about Origins is it’s self-governing, so the Origins community decide whether or not they’re going to allow, and they vet the projects. They do due diligence on the projects before allowing the project to get listed. And so, it’s basically regulation without a regulator right where these are. This is what’s really exciting is we’re starting to build true institutions for a well-functioning society and for a transparent financial system without any need for the SEC.
00:27:29:06 – 00:28:02:22
Edan Yago: Sometimes people worry that countries will ban Bitcoin. I think what’s really going to happen is that Bitcoin is going to ban countries. It’s going to be the opposite because I really see Bitcoin at this point being immovable force. And like, if countries do try to ban it, it’s not like people aren’t going to find a way to make sure that Bitcoin keeps moving forward. It’s really at the point I believe it’s too big to fail. I think for the first, you know, let’s call it five, seven years, there’s a lot of opportunity for it to crash and burn. It’s sustained the test of time.
00:28:02:29 – 00:28:31:08
Edan Yago: And as soon as I started seeing some institutions getting into it, they said it’s not going anywhere. So man, you know, it’s not just it’s all the old institutions are getting into it right, but where we are, right? What’s exciting, I think for our generation is we’re creating the institutions of the future, right? So Zero, for example, which I was talking about, 08 is a lending institution, right? What is an institution? An institution is a set of rules for people to collaborate. Basically, that’s right. And the mechanism for enforcing that.
00:28:31:16 – 00:28:55:15
Edan Yago: So, Zero is a lending institution. A dollar on chain is a institution for creating dollars with dollar and trade as it competes with the Fed. Alright, that’s its competition. Origins competes with the SEC on protecting and with Nasdaq also to big institutional institutions is a very abstract word, but when you start thinking about it in specific examples. Alright, and this is also why I raise the the marriage thing.
00:28:55:28 – 00:29:19:09
Edan Yago: When you create a smart contract which allows people to have their vows and share their wealth and if they get divorced, split that wealth, right? That’s I mean, it’s the marriage institution. It’s one of the oldest, most important institutions in human society. And we are recreating without recourse to a church, without recourse to, you know, a court system in Vegas, right? So, we’re rebuilding everything.
00:29:19:24 – 00:29:44:26
Richard Carthon: It’s really cool and there’s so much more I’m sure that is on the way. And you know, I really appreciate you spending time like, breaking up the three elements down that Sovryn has to offer. But as we kind of come to the end and wrap up this discussion, I always like to finish on two final fun questions. One being with all the information that you have right now, if you can go in and part one or two pieces of wisdom to yourself when you first got started in the space, what would you tell yourself?
00:29:45:10 – 00:30:04:21
Edan Yago: I got into Bitcoin quite early. I’ve never really sold Bitcoin, but what I have done is I’ve lost Bitcoin. I was in the early days, it was very hard to secure your keys, so I’ve lost a bunch of Bitcoin that way. So, I would tap myself on the shoulder and tell myself, you know, be careful. And I think another thing which I’ve noticed is a lot of people get very good.
00:30:04:23 – 00:30:46:06
Edan Yago: I’ve seen so many people get very, very wealthy, right? And I’ve seen how it has made them less happy people, I’ve seen how it’s made them less good people. And so, I think one very important lesson is that wealth is the start. Wealth is the option to do things in your life, but if you don’t have principles about what you want to be and how you want to impact the world, then that lack of constraint actually makes you miserable. It sounds like a rich person’s problem, and it is. But for, you know, people who are involved in the space, many of them will become wealthier than they ever expected. That is not a goal. It’s not a good goal. So, I think that’s one lesson that I’ve learned.
00:30:47:06 – 00:31:30:29
Richard Carthon: You’re the first person that’s answered that way, and I appreciate that. I think it is important because people who are getting in this like, especially as you look at this next decade, this will be the largest amount of wealth generation ever made. People who have never conceived this type of actual money coming to them and like you said, money can change people. And I think by having good core principles and things that they abide by and understanding that wealth isn’t the end game, it is a means to all of the work that you’re doing. I think that is a really good and solid reminder, so, thank you for that. I definitely appreciate that not just from my audience, but even for myself. So, thank you for that. As we kind of wrap up here, man, what is a final thought that you want to leave with all the listeners here today?
00:31:31:11 – 00:31:34:10
Edan Yago: I always leave people with the same thought, Stay Sovryn.
00:31:35:02 – 00:31:39:09
Richard Carthon: It’s a good one. What are ways that people can connect with you, and learn more about Sovryn as well?
00:31:39:21 – 00:32:00:25
Edan Yago: So, Sovryn is going through an exciting time. We have the Sovryn token, which is the governance token, is being listed on the first exchanges. It was listed last week on an index, has been listed this week on a couple of exchanges or at least some date. And I think there was a number of other exchanges that seem to be planning to list as well. So, it’s never been easier to sort of figure out how to get involved.
00:32:00:27 – 00:32:31:12
Edan Yago: I would suggest everyone try go to Sovryn draft. So, we are white and direct. The website is very, very basic. You know, what’s more important is that you click on the interact and then you will see, like the entire world of Sovryn open up in front of you. I sometimes say, you know, Bitcoin is the orange pool, right? Sovryn is wonderland. I’d say if you fall down the rabbit hole, I think eventually you end up in Sovryn. I am Edan Yago on Twitter.
00:32:32:09 – 00:32:37:26
Richard Carthon: Perfect. Edan. Thank you so much again for joining us and for everyone listening, Stay, Crypto Current.
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