Today we analyze an intense debate at the Miami Crypto Experience on Bitcoin vs Bitcoin Cash vs Bitcoin SV.
The following transcript was created using artificial intelligence. There will be some grammatical errors below.
00:01:05:11 – 00:01:24:28
JC Crown: I’m JC Crown. Don’t mind if I stand up in this. Been in this space for a while, full-time, about five years in the industry. I’m very passionate about Bitcoin and have been for a long time. Currently working on one of the biggest projects on the Lightning Network, ZEBEDEE. We’re doing Bitcoin and EA Sports, combining that together, taking your virtual assets and allowing you to have.
00:01:25:00 – 00:01:27:25
Eryka Gemma: Like this.
00:01:27:27 – 00:02:02:20
JC Crown: Sorry, I work for a company called ZEBEDEE. They’re one of the biggest Lightning Network projects in the space, very proud of what we’re doing. We’re using the Lightning Network, which is a Layer Two protocol for Bitcoin that allows you to, you know, spend it quickly and cheaply to add your virtual assets from video games into Bitcoin instead. So, we work with game developers and gamers to allow them, like, right now we have Counter-Strikes, for example, to allow them to actually earn Bitcoin as they’re playing. I shoot you, I get your Bitcoin, you shoot me, you get my Bitcoin. It’s opening up a whole new world of possibilities. But that’s what we’re focused on and what I’m passionate about. But I’m happy to be here and talk about why Bitcoin is so important and you know, why it’s so important to hold on to what Bitcoin is as well.
00:02:03:12 – 00:02:06:01
Eryka Gemma: Alright. And for BCH, Bitcoin cash.
00:02:06:06 – 00:02:51:04
Sterlin Lujan: Hey, guys, my name is Sterlin Lujan. I’ve been in this space for about six years. I am formerly the communications ambassador for Bitcoin.com. I currently work for an OTC trade desk and emergent exchange called Crypto Space based out of L.A. We also have offices in Los Angeles. I’m here to debate the merits of using Cryptocurrency as peer-to-peer electronic cash and to advocate for mass adoption because it’s this type of technology, it’s this type of use case that helps us undermine the nation states and the kleptocrats and the bureaucrats and all these nasty people who are trying to take advantage of us. And I feel very strongly that Bitcoin has been co-opted in various degrees that make.
00:02:51:06 – 00:02:59:27
Eryka Gemma: Hey, it’s not time for this yet. Sorry, I got to be a good mod. So, hey, no, no, my question, let’s let you finish, Sterlin, why is it that you are qualified to debate for Bitcoin Cash?
00:03:00:08 – 00:03:13:20
Sterlin Lujan: Because I’ve spent about five years in the ecosystem. And Bitcoin Cash, I’ve used it, I’ve helped developers work on it and I’ve just been so enmeshed and involved in the system that it’s become a part of me, a burgeoning part of me.
00:03:14:06 – 00:03:15:06
Eryka Gemma: Awesome. Rafael.
00:03:15:20 – 00:03:44:02
Rafael LaVerde: Hi, guys. My name is Rafael LaVerde and I run the Crypto Vigilante along with Jeff Berwick, Mr. X, Ed Bugos, Cash App, Mr. Z, Mr. W and a bunch of gangsters in the space. I’ve been in this space for almost 10 years. I’m here because I think it’s very important to be objective. As an analyst, we strive to be as objective as possible. That is our goal.
00:03:44:08 – 00:04:16:28
Rafael LaVerde: In Crypto, the biggest problem that we’ve had is tribalism and a lot of it comes from the fact that there are a lot of special interests that don’t want you to know things. So, what I want to challenge you guys tonight is to adopt the mindset of a capitalist entrepreneur, to look where people don’t want you to look, to research what people don’t want you to research, okay? That’s where you gain profit in life. The moment you start following the crowd and not thinking critically, you’re no longer going to be profitable, okay? And that’s it.
00:04:17:04 – 00:05:06:06
Eryka Gemma: Raphael is a philosopher and I do want to say just thanks Raf. So, that concept in general, you guys, doing your own research, this is why we’re here today, because personally, I’m not sure which Bitcoin is the real Bitcoin. And it’s important for us to have the discussion and kind of what I found and the reason that this has sparked this in me was because I’m just going to riff for a moment, I was part of this group chat of like, female, like toxic, like, maximalist type group, right? And somebody and, you know, I’m going to tell you, I’ve probably on-boarded way more people into Bitcoin than that entire group chat combined, just because of what I do, okay? And now, what happened in this group chat was a girl, a new girl had asked, what do you think about XRP? And I said, “Hmm, XRP is going to win their lawsuit and they’re also going to raise in price.” Not that I want this to happen, but I’m a very well researched person and that’s what I predict.
00:05:06:15 – 00:05:45:22
Eryka Gemma: These girls kicked me out of the group chat, and that really made me mad because I was like, I’ve literally on-boarded more people to Bitcoin than all of you people combined. Also, it’s like, it’s a well-informed opinion, right? So, then I kind of went down this rabbit hole like, hey, why are these people just shutting me out of the conversation? And plus, like, not to mention, some of these girls, like, I’ve gotten them speaking engagements, I found them their lawyers, like, all these different favors I’ve done for them, and they have the audacity to do that. So, that’s kind of what sparked this debate here. And JC, thankfully, somebody who is willing to argue for BTC, we found somebody willing to argue for and for BSV. And we actually really found some of the cream of the crop, so, I’m looking forward to this.
00:05:45:24 – 00:05:57:26
Eryka Gemma: Alright, so, we have three minutes on the clock for each of you. I’m going to time you, make sure this is proper and we’re gonna let you go first, JC. Thank you for the mic. Thank you. Okay, so the first question is, why is your coin the best Bitcoin? Three minutes.
00:05:57:29 – 00:06:22:21
JC Crown: Sure. Alright. So, I mean, we can start by the fact that it’s really the only Bitcoin. It’s been the same thing for the last 12 years. So, you know, you’ve got over, what? Ninety-seven percent of the hash rate. It’s obviously, you know, dominant, but there’s a reason why it’s dominant because people respect, it’s not about the technology when we talk about Bitcoin, we’re talking about the asset, the monetary asset, the 21,000,000. And that 21,000,000, everybody knows it’ll never change.
00:06:22:24 – 00:06:43:01
JC Crown: So, when you’re buying Bitcoin, what you’re buying is a piece of something that will never change. You don’t have to trust, there’s no politics, there’s no, you know, Oh, I don’t know what Vitalik’s going to feel tomorrow, maybe he’ll change the emission rate, whatever it is. You know you can buy Bitcoin and hold it for 100 years and just sleep and don’t care anymore and that’s what it is. And that’s important, super important. That’s the reason it gets its value.
00:06:43:07 – 00:07:31:19
JC Crown: You’re going to hear a lot of things here about Bitcoin being used as payments or as a payment technology or as a peer-to-peer cash and I do love peer-to-peer cash, that’s why I’m involved in the industry, in the Lighting space, because that allows me to spend Bitcoin in ways that, you know, I couldn’t even do with BSV or BCH. You know, the games, for example, that we’re talking about, Counter-Strike, when I shoot you and I get 30 Satoshi like less than a penny from you, you can’t even send 30 Satoshi on BSV or BCH. It’s below the dust limit, but on Lightning, I can do that. I can do that with no confirmations, with cryptographic security. You know, I don’t want to get too much on the tech. I can do that with real cryptographic security, I don’t have to, you know, I don’t want to get too deep into the tech on that, but Lightning enables us to use Bitcoin in a way that actually scales. So, when you’re talking about scaling Bitcoin, you’re talking about using it in layers. You have all the security of Layer One, which is never compromised and never changes and then you have the utility of Layer Two.
00:07:31:21 – 00:07:41:14
Eryka Gemma: I’m just going to pause you real quick, just for the people who might not understand scaling, scaling just means Bitcoin being able to send more transactions and higher volumes as it grows.
00:07:41:16 – 00:08:17:04
JC Crown: So, when I hear a peer-to-peer cash, it’s funny because Lightning is actually more peer-to-peer than the core protocol itself. If I’m sending you money over the Lightning Network, I’m sending you money. It’s not going to a miner and being recorded in a ledger. It’s me and you and our private keys and we’re signing those transactions ourselves in a peer-to-peer way and that scales as much as you want it to. We’ve got, you know, some tests already that have been done, over 1,000,000,000 TPS. And the best part is if Eryka and I are transacting to each other, you know, on two supercomputers, a 1,000,000,000 transactions a second and you guys are over here in wherever, Kentucky, transacting, you don’t even know, or feel it.
00:08:17:06 – 00:08:46:01
JC Crown: It’s not like it’s bringing down the network because we’re transacting. We’re transacting in a peer-to-peer way with the people we want to transact with. And we can do it in a way that, again, doesn’t compromise the main protocol, which is essential. The only reason why any of this matters is because it can’t be changed. If you couldn’t trust the core rules, we were talking about money, we’re talking about something that governments, world wars have been fought over for all of history, entire kingdoms. You cannot put that in human hands. We’ve seen it. I mean, if you want to, sure, you can bet on that. But I don’t want to. That’s why I like Bitcoin.
00:08:46:03 – 00:08:46:18
Eryka Gemma: Twenty seconds.
00:08:46:20 – 00:08:59:23
JC Crown: You know, I don’t want to trust. And that’s why I feel like I don’t have to trust, Bitcoin. It’s very different when you start going off into, like, you know, well, maybe I want to change the rules and do this over here with, like, these 20 guys. That’s a totally different thing and not why I’m here.
00:09:00:11 – 00:09:21:16
Eryka Gemma: Okay, and just to end that out, very good, opening arguments, JC. And just to end that out, Bitcoin’s current market cap is the biggest. It’s about one 1 trillion dollars right now. Bitcoin’s price is about $55,000 dollars. It’s definitely got the highest cash rate out of the three currently. Why is your coin the best Bitcoin? Three minutes on the clock. BCH, let’s go.
00:09:22:10 – 00:10:05:18
Sterlin Lujan: So, Bitcoin Cash represents the best version of Bitcoin because it fulfills all the requirements for a peer-to-peer decentralized cash that Satoshi Nakamoto, whoever that is, had envisioned since day one. This means that you can send Bitcoin cash in a truly peer-to-peer fashion, except also keeping fees low. Another beautiful thing about Bitcoin Cash is that it’s bringing the most utility to the space right now and has some of the most active and beautiful developmental activities happening right now. So, for instance, Bitcoin Cash has created CashFusion, which is providing privacy and anonymity for the currency. Nothing like that currently exists on Bitcoin.
00:10:05:20 – 00:10:46:06
Sterlin Lujan: Bitcoin is completely visible forensically and analytically for anybody who wants to view those transactions. That’s changing as Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin Cash has a ton of activity overall. And another thing I want to bring up that’s really important, JC was talking about Lightning Network providing that peer to peer functionality for Bitcoin, but that’s all absolutely false. So, the problem with Lightning Network, the main problem is it’s just reinventing the wheel. It’s becoming a simulacrum of Visa and MasterCard networks because since it is off chain in the second layer, any of those transactions at any time can be seized or frozen.
00:10:46:09 – 00:11:33:29
Sterlin Lujan: I want to add the fact that the Blockstream company who has started developing platforms like Liquid, those guys aren’t looking out for the individual user. They’re looking out for the large exchanges and for making sure that all of those guys get their coffers filled. So, in this sense, Bitcoin Cash is staying true to the decentralized peer-to-peer version that Bitcoin was always meant to be, and I think that’s absolutely beautiful. If we can use Cryptocurrencies to help undermine the nation states, to empower cypherpunks and Crypto anarchists, to empower people who don’t want to live under the servitude of tyranny, Bitcoin Cash represents the best version of Bitcoin. It is Bitcoin par excellence from the purely visionary perspective.
00:11:35:03 – 00:11:52:28
Eryka Gemma: Awesome. Thank you, Sterlin. Now to give you guys some stats, Bitcoin Cash is currently $925 a coin. Its market cap is about 17 billion dollars right now. And I think it has the second most hash rate in this debate. And let’s go, Rafael, why is BSV the best Bitcoin?
00:11:53:00 – 00:12:33:28
Rafael LaVerde: Alright guys, so, we’re going to break this down. The word Bitcoin is a composite word: it’s bit, coin. What these guys have been emphasizing here has been the coin aspect of Bitcoin, right? One guy represents something that wants to be digital gold, the other guy represents something that wants to be digital cash. But the truth, guys, is that according to sound Austrian monetary theory, neither of these coins meet that criteria. That’s because they tried to make Bitcoin into something that Bitcoin was not. What they both really want to be is called Monero. Okay, get that straight. That is private by default at the protocol level.
00:12:35:01 – 00:13:09:10
Rafael LaVerde: This right here, Bitcoin Cash, CashFusion, that’s like putting your coins into a dirty soup. Okay, coin joint is a dirty soup. That’s all it is. Of course, Blockchain analytics companies are going to be like, Dude, you’re in the soup with us. It’s obvious Bitcoin BTC when you trade on the Lightning Network, you’re not even trading Bitcoin, you’re trading simulation Bitcoin is what I call it. It’s a simulation, guys. If it’s not on chain, it is not Bitcoin. If it does not extend the ledger, it is not Bitcoin.
00:13:09:17 – 00:13:45:04
Rafael LaVerde: Bitcoin in its heart is a meritocracy of miners, that’s what it is. And what these two don’t understand is that the miners are the owners of the club. They are not the bouncers of the club, okay? So, from the get go, they’re only looking at Bitcoin half ass because number one, they never really understood it. Number two, those that kind of understood or were too scared to go for it all the way. And number three, they came in with this communist rhetoric of this new egalitarianism called decentralization.
00:13:45:18 – 00:14:22:24
Rafael LaVerde: And in order to have decentralization, you have to have central planners. So, we have two co-opted attempts of Bitcoin, right? By the core devs and he didn’t give you the whole story, has there ever been a dispute within BTC? And from now on, I’m going to call it here, Cripple Coin. Within Bitcoin, has there ever been a dispute within Cripple Coin that the BTC devs did not win? Think about it. No, they’ve always won. Their central planners for the sake of decentralization. Same thing with Bitcoin Cash. He was talking crap about Liquid.
00:14:22:26 – 00:14:24:04
Eryka Gemma: Thirty seconds.
00:14:24:06 – 00:15:10:21
Rafael LaVerde: Liquid. But guess what they did. They checkpointed on exchanges. Guess what? I stand tall with the fullness of Bitcoin and I can break it down even more because I only addressed the coin aspect of Bitcoin. Don’t even get me started on the bits aspect of Bitcoin, which is its computational power that both of you don’t want you to know about. And you know why you guys don’t want to know about it? Because it scares the crap out of Silicon Valley that’s why. Our enemies are not Wall Street, our enemies are not the banks, our enemies in Silicon Valley. With Bitcoin in its original form at scale, you can compete tonight with big tech by using the Bitcoin miners as the back end of your business. I was a bit angel in charge of the early Bitcoin startups.
00:15:10:23 – 00:15:12:03
Eryka Gemma: Got to go, Raf. Got to be respectful, Raf.
00:15:12:09 – 00:15:30:25
Rafael LaVerde: Dude, really quick. And I got to see all the early Bitcoin startups yo. I saw them all, they all went through my desk. I’ve never seen so much entrepreneurship in all of Crypto my whole life then I’ve seen BSV. Open up your eyes and look where they tell you not to look, okay? There’s a lot of special interests out there that don’t want you to.
00:15:30:27 – 00:15:35:15
Eryka Gemma: We’ll cover that in the next round, Raf. Thank you so much.
00:15:35:17 – 00:15:37:06
Rafael LaVerde: But look into it guys. Real digital gold, the real digital cash is called Monero.
00:15:37:08 – 00:17:35:04
Eryka Gemma: Mute his mic, just kidding. So, as you guys can tell, you guys, we have passionate people. And you know what? I’m going to say, just to preface this, diversification. The beautiful part of this is that all three of these chains are currently operating right now. You can have access to all three of them.
00:17:35:06 – 00:17:58:08
Eryka Gemma: So, let’s continue with the debate. Just to do some statistics, BSV, currently at a price of $299, currently at a market cap of five billion dollars. So, the next question, and I’m going to let you take this one first, JC, is, I want you to pick BCH or I want you to take BSV and I want you to say why you would not pick one of them.
00:17:58:18 – 00:18:03:00
JC Crown: Sure, that’s going to be easy. And I do want to make a couple of quick clarifications when it comes to Lightning.
00:18:03:02 – 00:18:04:09
Eryka Gemma: One minute on the clock, by the way.
00:18:04:11 – 00:18:15:27
JC Crown: Okay. When it comes to Lightning Network, it is definitely not a simulation. It’s backed by your private keys. You know, you’ve got little devices called an OPENDIME, you can put Bitcoin on it and give it to your friends. Nobody ever says it’s not real Bitcoin because you didn’t put it on the chain, that’s ridiculous.
00:18:17:21 – 00:18:18:06
Rafael LaVerde: It doesn’t extend the ledger, it’s not Bitcoin.
00:18:18:08 – 00:18:35:04
JC Crown: Your private key are what your Bitcoin is. So, that’s important. It’s not pretend. You are trading Bitcoin, but you don’t have to go through miners because Blockchains don’t scale like that. We know that. You either have a centralized chain that can scale or a decentralized one that you can’t make compromises on. That’s what Bitcoin is.
00:18:35:08 – 00:19:05:10
JC Crown: So, the one I would absolutely never use, of course, is BSV. And it’s a little disingenuous to even pretend like it’s a miner’s coin because it’s .3 percent of the hash rate of Bitcoin right now, and it’s more than 50 percent by one company, the same company that started the coin. It’s Calvin Ayre, he’s a billionaire. And all of that development people are talking about on BSV, also funded by that same one guy. He’s got a big stake in this. He owns the machines, he gets to sell the coins to people and he gets to pay the marketing. That’s how these projects work. You know, they have a vested interest in propaganda.
00:19:05:15 – 00:19:06:00
Eryka Gemma: Ten seconds.
00:19:06:02 – 00:19:17:28
JC Crown: So, if you actually are, you know, if you’re a miner, you don’t want, like, a half a penny for your transaction and you don’t want to have to have piles of hard drives to store this bloated chain that isn’t even decentralized. It’s theater.
00:19:18:11 – 00:19:25:27
Eryka Gemma: Awesome, thank you. Alright, and now for BCH. Sterlin, pick a coin and pick why you would not use that coin?
00:19:26:03 – 00:19:44:21
Sterlin Lujan: Yeah, I think I’m going to have to go with Bitcoin. I’m not picking it because I don’t want to use it, I’m picking it because I can’t use it. It’s very challenging to use Bitcoin right now because the fees are upwards of $58. They’ve reached all time high and there are some reasons for that as well. But it’s also the simple fact that Bitcoin Cash is so much easier to use.
00:19:44:23 – 00:20:17:10
Sterlin Lujan: I live in the Cryptocurrency ecosystem, truly. I’ve gotten paid in it for a good while. I haven’t recently, but for a long time I’ve gotten paid in it. I still accept payments in it for my consulting work and it’s just so much easier to use. Bitcoin, by comparison, is almost impossible to use. And of course he’ll, you know, tout the Lightning Network and its importance, but they’re still not as many people using it and there’s been a big problem lately because you can’t really open Lightning Network channels without having to pay huge fees. And that’s something that’s come into light recently.
00:20:17:13 – 00:20:36:10
Sterlin Lujan: So, I really think that leveraging a true peer-to-peer technology is what’s going to open up the floodgates to more user adoption and more interest in the Cryptocurrency space. Right now, Bitcoin really looks like a truly speculative asset with people just dumping money in it because it has the first mover advantage.
00:20:36:12 – 00:20:36:27
Eryka Gemma: Ten seconds.
00:20:36:29 – 00:20:51:08
Sterlin Lujan: So, that’s why I’m all about using and listen, I’m not close minded, I’m not a maximalist. I want the best Cryptocurrency to win, the best peer-to-peer technology. And I just think that Bitcoin Cash is really positioned right now to fulfill those desires in a market environment.
00:20:51:17 – 00:20:56:29
Eryka Gemma: Thank you, Sterlin. Alright, so, now, last question for you, Raf. Which one would you not pick and why?
00:20:57:09 – 00:21:30:18
Rafael LaVerde: So, I never want to use Cripple Coin Bitcoin guys. Every time I use Cripple Coin, BTC, it feels like I’m getting a parking ticket. Like for real, dude. Like, you mean this is the future of money? And not just that, but let’s be real about Lightning, Strike, Breez, all those lightning channels, Lightning only works within those companies because the liquidity is centralized. Those companies themselves run their own Lightning hubs. There are centralized agents that route the transactions.
00:21:30:21 – 00:21:54:19
Rafael LaVerde: So, no, it’s not decentralized, bro. Get out of here. Because look, at the Crypto Vigilante, I and Jeff Berwick, we said, “You know what, we’re Bit blockers.” Jeff is more on the Bitcoin Cash side, I’m a BSV dude. And we’re like, you know, let’s be honest, let’s bring in guys from Bitcoin, BTC, from Cripple Coin, they’re honest. All the honest and the smartest people in BTC, Cripple Coin left to Monero a long time ago.
00:21:54:21 – 00:21:57:02
Eryka Gemma: Ten seconds. Ten seconds.
00:21:57:04 – 00:22:22:28
Rafael LaVerde: A long time ago. Because in Monero, you are your own node, meaning a real node, a miner, right? Random X is a sick resistance so that you can be a miner easily in Monero. It is everything BTC ever wanted to be. It’s called Monero. It’s true digital gold. It is the golden standard of Cryptocurrency as currency in all of Crypto is more narrow.
00:22:23:02 – 00:22:23:17
Eryka Gemma: So if you guys don’t know.
00:22:23:19 – 00:22:25:17
Rafael LaVerde: But if you want to talk about Bitcoin.
00:22:26:06 – 00:22:54:25
Eryka Gemma: Cut his mic man, come on. Come on Raf, come on. Are we going to have a good, clean debate? No fighting below the belt. Listen to the little timing. But I can tell you people are passionate and that’s super important. And that’s what you’re going to find in the Cryptocurrency space in general, is that everybody is super passionate about what’s happening. So, the debate really comes to scale. How can we make Bitcoin usable for most people, especially those in third world countries that don’t have access to banks? So, for BTC, what do you think is the best way to scale Bitcoin? Thirty seconds this time.
00:22:55:05 – 00:22:58:19
JC Crown: Alright well, you guys already know my answer and it’s obvious, Lightning Network. And again.
00:22:58:21 – 00:23:00:06
Eryka Gemma: Explain the Lightning Network a little bit.
00:23:00:08 – 00:23:01:19
JC Crown: Peer-to-peer, well I only have 30 seconds.
00:23:01:21 – 00:23:02:06
Eryka Gemma: I stopped you.
00:23:02:08 – 00:23:11:09
JC Crown: But when we’re talking about peer-to-peer, peer-to-peer is decentralized. It’s centralized to me. I own my liquidity and my node, so, yeah, I’m me, I’m centralized. I can sensor myself if I want to.
00:23:11:11 – 00:23:46:04
Eryka Gemma: Actually pause, Okay, this is what the Lightning that where it is and I’m going to try it because I know a lot of people are new and I want to make sure we explain in a way that’s understandable to the layman. So, just like on the Internet, there are seven layers to the Internet for us to see what we have today. Most people don’t even know that, right? But we still use the Internet in our day to day world. Now, the Bitcoin Blockchain is the core first layer. There’s a second layer right now being built on top of Bitcoin, BTC. And this second layer is meant to make transactions more private and also less expensive and also faster and it’s called the Lightning Network. So, go ahead.
00:23:46:06 – 00:23:59:11
JC Crown: Right, yeah. So, of course, like any individual node is centralized for themselves. But that’s the thing, it’s an open protocol. Anybody can join it, anybody does. And we use it right now with ZEBEDEE. People all around the world joined, they’ve never used Bitcoin in their life, they download the wallet, it’s super easy.
00:23:59:14 – 00:24:27:11
JC Crown: They’re all kinds of non-custodial solutions, like Breez, which you mentioned and you control those coins. It’s yours, your private keys. So, nobody can take that from you, nobody can seize that from you. It’s Bitcoin that you have, which you’re using without building a Blockchain, something that a lot of people don’t consider when we’re talking about Blockchain. Somebody has to store that data. Nobody wants to store your little poker game on their thing for like 2,000 years, but Lightning Network means not only are we not recording it, but we don’t have to store it. And that’s like you mentioned, very private. When we talk about privacy, I wish I had more time.
00:24:27:13 – 00:24:28:02
Eryka Gemma: You don’t.
00:24:28:04 – 00:24:28:19
JC Crown: Yeah.
00:24:28:21 – 00:24:34:07
Eryka Gemma: Alright, Sterlin, pass it on. Thirty seconds, what is the best way to scale Bitcoin?
00:24:34:25 – 00:24:53:19
Sterlin Lujan: So, right out of the gate, recreating the Visa and MasterCard networks is not scaling Bitcoin. To scale Bitcoin, all you have to do is increase the block size limit. That’s it, bar none. The only reason a block size limit was created in the first place was to prevent spam attacks on the network. So, it was meant to be opened up as the network grew.
00:24:53:21 – 00:25:22:08
Sterlin Lujan: And I’m personally a huge fan of what’s called Emergent Consensus. Emergent Consensus is a protocol whereby the miners get to adjust the difficulty as the market grows. And that is a truly good way of growing the protocol, along with market share and along with interests in the space. So, that’s my personal favorite way. But just opening up the block size limit is always going to be the first step.
00:25:22:10 – 00:25:49:02
Sterlin Lujan: And what Bitcoin Cash has done to open up the block size limit and to be open minded to the needs of the market has created way more interest for developers who want to build utility and actual use cases on top of it. If you don’t have that ability to truly build and there’s all of these roadblocks and obstacles blocking your way to development, then your platform, your Blockchain is going to suffer irrevocably.
00:25:49:08 – 00:26:31:25
Eryka Gemma: And in terms of block sizes, this is really one of the big differences between three of the chains is that the way that Blockchain works is that you have all of these transactions thrown into a block, right? After roughly 10 minutes on Bitcoin Core at least, that block closes and then the next block starts and then that is filled with transactions and then that block closes and the next block starts. And what happens is that you have this now immutable chain. Something that’s in the block way down here, if you wanted to change something in that, you would have to redo all that computing power and all that math and change something all the way down here. And that’s what makes Bitcoin immutable. And the main difference right here is, I’m sorry, that is what makes the Blockchain immutable, is the fact that you have to unwind all of those transactions.
00:26:32:01 – 00:26:55:07
Eryka Gemma: Now, obviously, with some Blockchains, the amount of math and power that’s needed to unwind that is less than others. And this is why a lot of like, you know, other Cryptocurrencies, not the three represented on stage have some major issues because of that low processing power to unwind those transactions. Now for you, Rafael, what do you think is the best way to scale Bitcoin?
00:26:55:20 – 00:27:41:08
Rafael LaVerde: So, Bitcoin, my definition of Bitcoin is that Bitcoin is a meritocracy of miners that currently monetize across three chains. Having a lot of hash power, like he said, it’s also a security concern. So, for BTC to have a lot of hash power like he said, “Oh, it’s a good thing.” It’s actually not that good of a thing. Look what just happened last week, guys, there was a difficulty bomb, right? Because a bunch of miners, like 30 percent of the network went down and what happens when a difficulty bomb happens? You’re really putting the network at risk of a chain death spiral because then it’s going to be a lot harder for the miners to find the next block. And it’s going to call onto the central planning technocrats of BTC, which is core to hard fork.
00:27:41:29 – 00:27:42:14
Eryka Gemma: Awesome.
00:27:42:16 – 00:27:54:22
Rafael LaVerde: So, it’s really detrimental. The way to scale Bitcoin is by giving miners complete autonomy, complete autonomy, because what happened in Crypto and in Bitcoin specifically.
00:27:54:24 – 00:27:55:09
Eryka Gemma: Ten seconds.
00:27:55:11 – 00:28:13:20
Rafael LaVerde: Was that people don’t like the idea of other people being better than them. It’s a communist mindset. This guy was complaining about Calvin Ayre. Calvin Ayre is a great entrepreneur. You’re supposed to compete in providing value to the network as you’re competing to secure the network.
00:28:13:22 – 00:28:20:28
Eryka Gemma: Awesome. Thanks, Rafael. So, just in terms of block sizes and scaling, can you just say real quick, how big is a block size on BTC?
00:28:21:18 – 00:28:26:15
Rafael LaVerde: The base legacy is one megabyte, but you can get a little higher, you can go maybe 2.4.
00:28:27:00 – 00:28:27:15
Eryka Gemma: Okay and for BTH?
00:28:27:17 – 00:28:30:02
Rafael LaVerde: Thirty two megabytes currently.
00:28:30:23 – 00:28:31:08
Eryka Gemma: And then.
00:28:31:25 – 00:28:41:29
Rafael LaVerde: We’re going for unlimited, we’re doing right now between seven to 10 transactions of megabytes and we’re doing around 50,000 transactions per second.
00:28:42:01 – 00:28:42:23
Eryka Gemma: First.
00:28:42:27 – 00:28:51:10
Rafael LaVerde: Most transactions out of any Blockchain in the whole space. Think about that. That’s the original Bitcoin protocol at scale. Think about that.
00:28:51:12 – 00:28:51:27
Eryka Gemma: And so.
00:28:51:29 – 00:28:53:03
Rafael LaVerde: And we’re proving it with actual work.
00:28:53:05 – 00:28:55:27
Eryka Gemma: To give some history.
00:28:56:09 – 00:28:57:05
Rafael LaVerde: With showing it.
00:28:57:07 – 00:29:17:07
Eryka Gemma: To give some history, Bitcoin was the first, Bitcoin Cash was the first fork, and then BSV was a second fork. There’s like a bunch of forks, honestly, but these are the three main ones. Okay, so, now the next question is and I want to give you guys some time to answer this, because I really want the crowd to understand what’s so cool about Cryptocurrencies, okay? So, if you want to say what is the coolest thing you’ve done with Bitcoin?
00:29:17:14 – 00:29:39:05
JC Crown: Sure. Right now it’s got to be what I’m doing with the Lightning Network. Everything that we’re doing now, it’s like going back to the early days. You know, in the early days of Bitcoin, one of my favorite things was there were so many tinkerers, people building their own arcade machines, people building their own little machines, you know, do yourself stuff. It was cool. But as Bitcoin grew, that space became so valuable, of course, that it kind of pushed some of those use cases off it.
00:29:39:07 – 00:30:15:04
JC Crown: And now with Lightning, we’re seeing those, the tinkering community come back again. And you got guys that are making like ATMs where you can put pennies in the ATMs and scan with your phone and get pennies of Bitcoin out of it. You know, all kinds of really cool things are being done. The company, ZEBEDEE, again, that I’m with now, being able to play games and, you know, hit people for five cents apiece. It’s the best way that I’ve seen with games and Bitcoin, that is an incredible way to on-board people who never even thought they wanted to use Bitcoin. Now they’re using Bitcoin because it’s fun. They’re getting it for playing games they were going to play anyway. It’s an amazing way. It opens up opportunities for, you know, sponsors and devs themselves, new ways to interact with their communities.
00:30:15:08 – 00:30:32:29
JC Crown: So, instead of just having a game where you pay into and the game devs, they make all the money, you really I, mean, cool, you engage, you have fun, but now you’re part of an ecosystem. You’re part of a circular economy where you guys are paying each other. If the game is successful, the gamers are winning, too. And, you know, that’s amazing. And what it’s doing for adoption is amazing.
00:30:33:01 – 00:30:36:26
Eryka Gemma: So, the one coolest thing you say you would use Bitcoin for.
00:30:37:17 – 00:30:46:09
JC Crown: Man, it’s so many, But I think, yeah. I mean, I’m a gamer always, so, I think being able to make Bitcoin for playing games is really cool.
00:30:47:02 – 00:30:48:24
Eryka Gemma: Awesome, okay. Bitcoin Cash.
00:30:49:10 – 00:31:35:24
Sterlin Lujan: So, one of my favorite things about Bitcoin Cash currently is CashFusion, being able to send private transactions in a truly peer-to-peer fashion is absolutely amazing. And yeah, there are other privacy coins that meet these requirements, but Bitcoin Cash can also do a whole lot more besides that. But here’s the thing right now with technologies like BSV, there’s likely going to be no privacy features built on to that because people like Craig Wright want it to be gov token and they don’t want anything to do with privacy. They want your government to know everything about it. I’m a huge fan of the cypherpunk movement and privacy, and I think we should be able to leverage technologies that give us the utility and the flexibility to send transactions that somebody can’t chase you down and use Blockchain forensics and analytics tools like chain analysis to find out what you’re up to.
00:31:35:29 – 00:31:51:27
Sterlin Lujan: Privacy is of the utmost importance, and I think this is one of the greatest creations on the Bitcoin Cash network more recently and it’s absolutely amazing. I highly recommend trying it out. You can download an electron wallet and or get CashFusion right inside of it. It’s awesome.
00:31:52:04 – 00:31:54:27
Eryka Gemma: What was the one of the coolest things you use Bitcoin Cash for?
00:31:55:06 – 00:31:57:27
Sterlin Lujan: Anonymous transactions using CashFusion.
00:31:58:09 – 00:32:00:00
Eryka Gemma: Awesome. Okay, and Rafael.
00:32:00:10 – 00:32:31:19
Rafael LaVerde: Nothing in any Bitcoin, Blockchain is anonymous at all. They are all surveillance, transparent coins, all of them. Now, number 10 on the Bitcoin white paper, because a lot of these people on this side, like, look, number 10 in the white paper, Satoshi gives you how to actually use privacy in Bitcoin, okay? It’s by using the UTXO set within the wallet itself. You can’t do that on chain with BTC, with Cripple Coin.
00:32:31:28 – 00:32:52:10
Rafael LaVerde: And by the way, Lightning is not Bitcoin, I hate to break it to you. The best second layer for BTC, Cripple Coin, it’s called PayPal. It’s the truth, that’s your best second layer, dude. It’s exactly what it is, it’s PayPal. That’s your number one second layer. So, kudos to you, bro. But when you talk about real Bitcoin, actually.
00:32:52:12 – 00:32:52:27
Eryka Gemma: What’s the coolest thing though? What’s the coolest thing?
00:32:52:29 – 00:33:14:17
Rafael LaVerde: Dude, BSV, yo. Okay, the coolest thing, I can talk about hours about the computational power of BSV. It’s all of the startups that are being built on Chainler right now, like Twetch, Relica, Stream Manetti. When you open up a BSV wallet, you open it up and it’s like a portal into all of the applications, games, on chain being built on chain right now it’s, beautiful. Download Hand Cash.
00:33:14:19 – 00:33:57:27
Rafael LaVerde: Speaking of Hand Cash, the UTXO set in Hand Cash between wallet-to-wallet, you can create hundreds of thousands of UTXO’s and then hundreds of thousands of addresses and sent nano transactions, literally we’re calling them nano transactions. We have a word for it called Doodle. It’s smaller than a Satoshi, bro. And if someone from the outside looks at what’s happening between Hand Cash wallet, you see hundreds of thousands of transactions going from hundreds of UTXO’s, those to hundreds, thousands of addresses. So, the way Satoshi designed Bitcoin is for you in order to do Blockchain analytics on Bitcoin, it requires work, proof of work. So, then it’s a matter of economic incentives.
00:33:58:12 – 00:34:17:14
Rafael LaVerde: Is it worth going after this criminal? Nah, dude, that dude was doing nothing. Alright then, let’s not put to work in doing the Blockchain analytics for it. Is it worth it? This dude was actually trafficking children, yeah, do the work. You do the work and you can figure out and, do the necessary work and it’s going to cost money to do that.
00:34:17:25 – 00:34:18:10
Eryka Gemma: So, sorry,
00:34:18:12 – 00:34:20:21
Rafael LaVerde: BSV functions like it’s supposed to.
00:34:20:23 – 00:34:21:08
Eryka Gemma: Sorry.
00:34:21:10 – 00:34:22:18
Rafael LaVerde: Economies of scale.
00:34:24:06 – 00:34:24:21
Eryka Gemma: Yeah, okay, so.
00:34:24:23 – 00:34:37:12
Rafael LaVerde: It’s not centrally planned guys, it’s just straight up extreme capitalism and it’s beautiful. The coolest thing I think is Twetch. To me, Twetch because Twetch, when you use Twetch, you go back to Twitter.
00:34:37:14 – 00:34:38:12
Eryka Gemma: What is the Twetch? What is Twetch?
00:34:38:14 – 00:34:40:26
Rafael LaVerde: Instead of like you were in a communist republic in Twitter.
00:34:41:14 – 00:34:42:11
Eryka Gemma: What is Twetch?
00:34:42:13 – 00:34:57:26
Rafael LaVerde: Twetch is Twitter on the BSV Blockchain. Relica is like Instagram. It is like Instagram on the BSV Blockchain. Stream Manetti is like YouTube on the BSV Blockchain. And then you can play games guys through micro transactions.
00:34:58:12 – 00:35:30:22
Rafael LaVerde: Dude, what’s happening in BSV is blowing up, so amazing, but they’re not telling you about it because Silicon Valley’s scared because you can now right now you can start up a forefront for your business and use the big Bitcoin miners as the back end of your business. And let me tell you something else, all these Bitcoin miners are agnostic. F2Pool minds Bitcoin Cash, BSV and BTC. Miners on the club, they are not the bouncer’s of the club, as they will have you believe. Miners run this.
00:35:30:24 – 00:35:32:08
Eryka Gemma: Alright. Tell him.
00:35:32:10 – 00:35:36:26
Rafael LaVerde: So, as a miner, you’re hedging your bets to the future and you’re mining all three, right?
00:35:36:29 – 00:36:07:25
Eryka Gemma: Yeah. So, which is the same thing that you guys can do as people who are maybe conflicted as I am, on which Bitcoin, the ability to have all three is definitely there. And it seems like from my analysis right now, because I’m going through this with the audience as well, digital gold, right? I don’t even think on this side they’re arguing that they are digital gold, and then we have over here on the BSV side saying that what they have is huge processing power and the ability to create applications on top of Bitcoin. So, maybe we’re just having a different argument here. But let’s just continue. Coolest thing you’ve done in Bitcoin.
00:36:07:27 – 00:36:39:06
Eryka Gemma: I just want to show you the coolest thing I’ve done in Bitcoin. You know, you really got to help these people in these third world countries because there’s about 70 percent of the world’s population that does not have access to banks. And now with Cryptocurrencies, all they need is a cell phone and a Wi-Fi signal and they can participate in a global economy. Beforehand, you know, you would have to be able to have enough money and the proximity to a bank. But now people can transact in a global marketplace with just a cell phone, a Wi-Fi signal and a wallet. And you could do that with all Bitcoin’s, okay?
00:36:39:14 – 00:36:54:15
Eryka Gemma: So, what is, now you guys are going to have to do this and I’m going to actually, because we have kind of like a little two on one right now. I see what is going on, what is one thing you respect about your competitors’ views. And you two have to say something about him, okay? We’ll start with Raf for this one.
00:36:54:19 – 00:37:11:16
Rafael LaVerde: Okay, look, what I respect is their premises and their intentions, right? I think that they are all beautiful people and they have real good hearts and they have good intentions, but sometimes good people can invest themselves into sunk costs. What they really want is Monero, okay?
00:37:11:18 – 00:37:12:12
Eryka Gemma: Monero, I’m sorry.
00:37:12:14 – 00:37:12:29
Rafael LaVerde: True.
00:37:13:01 – 00:37:17:15
Eryka Gemma: Real fast, Raf, wait, no, no. Monero is a complete privacy coin.
00:37:17:17 – 00:37:18:02
Rafael LaVerde: Okay.
00:37:18:04 – 00:37:19:16
Eryka Gemma: Meaning the transactions are not traceable at all.
00:37:19:18 – 00:37:51:11
Rafael LaVerde: So, people that used to think in BTC logic, they realize what we really want to create in BTC is not possible in BTC, so, they were honest, they started from scratch and another Satoshi Nakamoto by the name of Nicholas von Sabberhagin came out and gave us the Crypto node protocol. Now, what I really love is a dude that was just here, Chris Odom. He actually created the most magnificent of second layers, guys. So, if there’s any BTC people out there listening, please. BTC has like, hope.
00:37:51:13 – 00:38:13:12
Rafael LaVerde: The hope for BTC are two things, actual side change by Paul Storks, which, I’m sorry, Paul, but I know Core’s not even going to like it, bro. It’s the truth because they’re central planners. Go to Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin Cash, I know they’ll welcome you. We don’t need you in BSV. But we don’t, we don’t.
00:38:15:08 – 00:38:16:14
Eryka Gemma: You’re supposed to say something good, Raf.
00:38:17:11 – 00:38:35:01
Rafael LaVerde: So, I like their intentions, but their logical conclusions, the logical conclusions of their arguments of their premises lead to Monero for both of them. So, they both should be here championing Monero, not fool’s gold and want to be cash.
00:38:35:12 – 00:38:36:03
Eryka Gemma: Okay, alright.
00:38:37:27 – 00:38:58:09
Rafael LaVerde: Bitcoin is computational power, guys. It’s being able to compete with big tech right now, right now. That’s really what Bitcoin is about. See, Bitcoin was not created as a privacy coin in mind, right? I’m sorry that they lied to you and they gave you half assed versions of this, but really what they give you is a honeypot that is extremely dangerous.
00:38:58:14 – 00:38:59:03
Eryka Gemma: And.
00:38:59:05 – 00:39:05:13
Rafael LaVerde: If you want a privacy coin, there’s Pirate Chain, which is amazing, zero knowledge proof by default on the protocol level or there’s Monero.
00:39:06:13 – 00:39:33:07
Eryka Gemma: And also, too guys, just so you understand, Bitcoin is pseudonymous, meaning that you’re tied to a wallet address and there are some ways you can trace and figure out if you want to do the work to figure out who’s wallet attributes to which person, but it’s pseudonymous. So, your name is not listed there and your KYC is not listed there, but if you do it a certain way, then actually, they can find out who you are. Alright, so Sterlin, say something good about bit, BTC.
00:39:33:24 – 00:40:13:18
Sterlin Lujan: Yeah. There’s a lot of things I like about the Bitcoin community and JC and I have actually had a little bit of a conversation with this in the past. But I like the fact that they actually do try to protect the people coming into the ecosystem, all the newbies out there who are constantly getting scammed. I’ve been in the space long enough to know that there are a ton of scammers out there. And in all likelihood, there’s probably a scammer or two right here at this event, because I’ve been to many events and have had people who are put in jail now try to scam me. And these guys do a really good job about trying to eliminate or get all of those people, those individual bad actors out of the space. And that’s what’s been one of my missions as well.
00:40:13:26 – 00:40:43:24
Sterlin Lujan: The scam artists are out there trying to prey on people and if they’re unwitting victims to a scam, they could potentially lose a lot of money. And working at a Cryptocurrency exchange has only given me even more ideas around how we can protect people. And really, it’s all about education. And these guys do a phenomenal job of educating people about how to use Cryptocurrencies and how to not get scammed. And they also do a good job about getting those bad actor companies and entities and organizations out of the environment.
00:40:44:01 – 00:41:06:16
Sterlin Lujan: So, that’s some major props that I give to the Bitcoin community. And I only hope that other Cryptocurrency ecosystems can mirror that amount of dedication to helping others, because ultimately, I think that’s what these communities are about all of us can agree on, that we’re trying to bring common ground and bring people together, so, that we can prevent people from getting hurt and taken advantage of. And that’s one of the reasons that I’m in the space as well.
00:41:07:02 – 00:41:30:22
Eryka Gemma: Awesome. And, you know, he’s completely correct, you guys. Do your own research, personal accountability. You don’t have FDIC $250,000 insurance. You have to make sure that you have personal accountability and responsibility. And this is what I love about Bitcoin in general, that it brings people to a place where they’re like, I can depend on no one but myself and I like that. Alright, so, say something good about one of the other two or both.
00:41:30:26 – 00:41:49:02
JC Crown: Sure, yeah. I mean, so I’m going to own a lot of BTC, guys, for a long time. They have a great community and a lot of the people, now, the individual companies that are running things, Bitmain and how they actually literally tried to co-opt Bitcoin. Bitcoin.com has done a lot of shady things over time, especially with their marketing. But the community itself, most of these guys, like privacy, is a focus.
00:41:49:06 – 00:42:11:23
JC Crown: And I strongly disagree that, you know, privacy on chain is something that we shouldn’t strive for. But it’s not Monero because Monero, cannot audit supply, you’ve got hard forks every six months, it’s definitely not Monero. With Bitcoin or with BCH, you know, CashFusion is actually really cool. I love CashFusion. It let’s you, I mean, everybody automatically when they’re spending, it’s not a dirty pool, it’s everybody. So, you don’t know what’s doing what. And it’s, I mean, it’s like, that’s great.
00:42:11:25 – 00:42:40:05
JC Crown: And Taproot, which is coming on Bitcoin soon hopefully, that is going to really open the door to a lot of online privacy, especially when you mix that with going in a second layer. It’s going to be, in my opinion, even more private than Monero in a lot of ways because we’re not going to have the trail, because even on Monero, you have a trail that you can trace, you know, 100 years from now potentially. So, there’s a lot of compromises you make there. But definitely the thing would be, my friends in BCH that have had, I mean, a lot of them come back to BTC now, but they’re mostly really good and like, their heart is in the right place, so.
00:42:40:07 – 00:43:10:06
Eryka Gemma: And that’s the thing is that there’s no right answer, you guys, there really isn’t and we need to understand that. But there are different viewpoints and it’s important to understand them all and not shut other people out because they don’t share your viewpoint. So, I’m going to ask one last question because I want to let you guys do some open debate and then some Q&A, because we’ve got about 10 minutes and we’re going to put this Pirate Chain video on. Three words, guys, okay? I know it’s going to be hard, Raf. Three words, okay? What makes you the most passionate about your coin?
00:43:11:01 – 00:43:14:18
JC Crown: Trustlessness, decentralization, unstoppability,
00:43:15:07 – 00:43:18:27
Sterlin Lujan: Peer-to-peer, anonymity and utility. That was more than three words, but.
00:43:20:12 – 00:43:21:16
Eryka Gemma: It’s okay.
00:43:21:18 – 00:43:36:28
Rafael LaVerde: Competition, capitalism and the Nakamoto consensus. A real Nakamoto consensus. Now I’m going to take a vote with a raspberry pi and with Amazon servers that I rented out and call it a Raspberry Revolution. No dude, no dude do.
00:43:37:29 – 00:43:38:14
Eryka Gemma: Alright, alright, alright.
00:43:38:16 – 00:43:39:01
Rafael LaVerde: Real proof of work baby.
00:43:39:03 – 00:44:08:03
Eryka Gemma: Alright. So, for the audience, would you guys rather because this is going to get real fiery in here, we’re going to have an actual debate like, for the next 10 minutes or do we want to take some questions? Let’s let them fight. That’s what I said. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, so guys, be respectful, no hitting below the belt and we got ten minutes. I just want to make sure that, yeah, let’s just make sure that everyone has the ability to speak. Go ahead.
00:44:08:11 – 00:44:27:06
JC Crown: Thanks. You know, I love that you mentioned the Nakamoto consensus because right now BSV’s got 00.3 percent of the miners. And these, like you said, they can do whatever they want. They’re free to mine. Anything they feel is the thing that they want of mine and they mine Bitcoin of course. To the extent they mine something else, it’s because, you know, they’re balancing the hash power out. But most of them don’t.
00:44:27:08 – 00:44:53:12
JC Crown: Even, you see disparities on BSV hash rate all the time, because even though they might be able to make a little bit more money, they don’t want to mess with it. It’s not liquid, they don’t respect it, it’s centralized. There’s all kinds of stuff right now with Craig, right? For example, where he wants to actually take the 1,000,000 coins that Satoshi had on BSV for himself. And from what I’ve heard from most of the community, they’re fine with it because they feel like Bitcoin should be just like PayPal and a court of law should be able to determine who owns what on the chain.
00:44:53:16 – 00:45:06:24
JC Crown: So, you don’t need private keys, you don’t need Cryptography, which is the entire point of Bitcoin, if you just have a judge saying, you know what, I think this guy is the owner of these coins, so go ahead and give it to him and then they do. That’s not at all what Bitcoin is.
00:45:07:14 – 00:45:46:02
Rafael LaVerde: So, yeah. Definitely the hash power, as much as the hash power issue is something that is an issue, at the same time, it’s not because the chain is still being sustained. When you hash, what you’re actually doing is putting out a cost lead signal out into the network that you will fight for this chain, right? There’s a lot of other ways to monetize as miners and that’s one thing that miners in BSV are doing, is that they’re experimenting with other ways of monetizing than just the block reward, which we call the subsidy, right? Which is just something that’s there.
00:45:46:05 – 00:45:46:20
JC Crown: So, do you?
00:45:46:22 – 00:46:05:12
Rafael LaVerde: There’s other ways of monetizing. But, yeah, I agree. I agree there is an issue and that’s something that miners decide. Again, Bitcoin, in my understanding, is a network of miners that currently monetize across three chains. They get to decide that they’re the owners of the club.
00:46:05:14 – 00:46:05:29
JC Crown: They do. And they have decided.
00:46:06:01 – 00:46:11:17
Rafael LaVerde: They call the shots. But at the same time, having a lot of hash power is a vulnerability.
00:46:11:19 – 00:46:12:04
JC Crown: Definitely.
00:46:12:07 – 00:46:13:17
Rafael LaVerde: Look at just what happened this past week.
00:46:13:19 – 00:46:16:07
JC Crown: We’re talking about 99 percent of the hash power.
00:46:16:09 – 00:46:16:24
Rafael LaVerde: Dude.
00:46:16:26 – 00:46:17:11
JC Crown: That’s not like a question.
00:46:17:13 – 00:46:26:12
Rafael LaVerde: Congratulations on your all time high transaction fee average, bro. Yeah, Cripple Coin. It felt like I was getting a parking ticket.
00:46:26:14 – 00:46:28:28
JC Crown: That’s called, do you like the free market or not?
00:46:29:03 – 00:46:29:25
Rafael LaVerde: Yo, my buddy just paid a $200 transaction fee.
00:46:29:27 – 00:46:33:28
JC Crown: Do you like capitalism or not? You say you’re capitalist, what do you want us to like, give everybody equal transactions?
00:46:34:00 – 00:46:35:21
Rafael LaVerde: No, it’s called economies of scale.
00:46:35:23 – 00:46:36:08
JC Crown: Right.
00:46:36:10 – 00:46:37:10
Rafael LaVerde: And this is how Bitcoin’s supposed to work. It’s just like opening up a burger joint.
00:46:37:12 – 00:46:40:19
JC Crown: There’s never a transaction that’s exactly what somebody wants to pay.
00:46:40:21 – 00:46:45:08
Rafael LaVerde: When you open up a burger joint, you have to cover your costs, right?
00:46:45:10 – 00:46:45:25
JC Crown: If it’s not
00:46:45:27 – 00:47:02:12
Rafael LaVerde: But if you start selling a lot of burgers, you can sell them cheaper. In BSV, the more the Blockchain is used, the more transactions we have on the Blockchain, the cheaper transactions get because the economies of scale incentivize production and actual value creation.
00:47:02:20 – 00:47:03:05
JC Crown: Yeah.
00:47:03:07 – 00:47:04:16
Rafael LaVerde: And miners, okay, okay.
00:47:04:21 – 00:47:05:06
JC Crown: You’re not.
00:47:05:08 – 00:47:17:12
Rafael LaVerde: And BTC’s the complete opposite, dude. You guys do an auctioning process called Replace by Fee and it’s like you’re waiting at a bus stop waiting for the bus to come in and hopefully you get in. And it’s like you just got pulled over on the Mexican highway, you try to bribe your way out of this one.
00:47:17:19 – 00:47:23:00
JC Crown: There’s no such thing as a fee that’s too expensive, because if it was, nobody would have paid it. People pay what they think it’s worth.
00:47:23:03 – 00:47:23:18
Rafael LaVerde: What you created.
00:47:23:20 – 00:47:36:06
JC Crown: It’s the freest market in the world. Anybody, regardless of who they are, without any bank, anybody in the world can go and if they want to make a transaction, they have to bid for that in a free market. And that’s going to be exactly what it’s worth.
00:47:36:08 – 00:47:37:04
Rafael LaVerde: Sure.
00:47:37:06 – 00:47:37:27
JC Crown: It can never be more than what it’s worth.
00:47:37:29 – 00:47:39:15
Rafael LaVerde: Sure.
00:47:39:17 – 00:48:17:07
Sterlin Lujan: One of the problems with, and this is this whole issue with Replace by Fee is you absolutely break the Bitcoin protocol with that, because inevitably what you can do, you create this fee market that inevitably gets to a point where it’s going to be impossible to even spend the tokens because of the amount of the fees. So, that’s one of the reasons why a lot of people in the Bitcoin Cash community have actually pushed back against that so vociferously because it effectively works like a chargeback like, if you were to buy buy something at Wal-Mart and then say later on down the road, maybe I don’t want that, and then you can actually send those funds back. So, Replace by Fee fundamentally breaks one of the key features and key characteristics.
00:48:18:02 – 00:48:30:16
JC Crown: You just have to wait for a confirmation. Once you have confirmation that it’s in a block, that’s it, you can’t take your payment back. So, it’s you know, that’s not hard. If you’re doing a transaction and you actually don’t trust the guy, or you don’t want to trust the guy, you just wait for it to be on the ledger and record it and there’s no more replacing anything.
00:48:30:27 – 00:49:00:19
Rafael LaVerde: Okay, so you brought up something about a government law. Okay, great, let’s talk about that. So, any Bitcoin chain, any of these three sister chains are open, transparent surveillance coins. All of them are. CashFusion, even using the Lightning Network, you still have to close a Lightning hub. And the liquidity, the centralized liquidity in the Lightning Network is a huge problem that they still have to deal with. We’re still waiting another 18 months for it to be useful for a normal average person, but, when you’re doing.
00:49:00:21 – 00:49:04:14
JC Crown: They’re playing right now on our platform. People from all around the world.
00:49:04:16 – 00:49:05:01
Rafael LaVerde: In 18 months, yes.
00:49:05:03 – 00:49:10:14
JC Crown: Right now. Right now, you can go there’s probably people playing Counter-Strike right now on our site for less than a penny per shot.
00:49:10:24 – 00:49:34:09
Rafael LaVerde: Actually guys, look, check this out. In all honesty, it would be really stupid for anyone to want the Lightning Network to fail. Like for real, that would be really dumb. BTC has taken the marketing breath of the space and everybody thinks of Bitcoin and they think of BTC. So, yeah, it would be really dumb to want the Lightning Network to fail. We all want it to succeed, man, okay?
00:49:34:11 – 00:49:34:26
JC Crown: I love it.
00:49:34:28 – 00:49:35:21
Rafael LaVerde: We all really want it to succeed.
00:49:35:23 – 00:50:07:24
JC Crown: And any, you know, if we wanted to talk about Lightning Network specifically, there’s a lot of great tech, you know, AMP allows you to split up your payments, so, it’s not just being reliant on the large liquidity providers. You can actually split your payment into even 100 pieces if you want, so that even the little guys get a piece of it because it’s open. You know, if there’s a node that’s getting too much of the liquidity, he’s, of course, going to raise his fees. You have to manage that node. And so, it’s going to give an arbitrage opportunity for other smaller nodes to sit there and kind of build their own roads and charge their own lower fees. And then open competition has resulted so far in, you know, almost free network right now to use and I could see that will continue.
00:50:07:26 – 00:50:08:18
Eryka Gemma: Closing statements.
00:50:09:06 – 00:50:09:26
Rafael LaVerde: But I think everyone.
00:50:09:28 – 00:50:11:03
Eryka Gemma: Because we gotta move on, but closing time.
00:50:11:05 – 00:50:35:03
Eryka Gemma: I think people in BTC really need to look into open transactions, guys. Chris Odom was just here and what he created was an incredible system. And I really want to champion what he did because he’s an unsung hero. And that is an awesome second layer solution that BTC could use, but no one’s really looking into it right now. I don’t know why, to be honest.
00:50:35:13 – 00:51:08:23
Sterlin Lujan: Yeah. I think I’m open minded, right? I’m not a maximalist, I’m for whatever is the best Cryptocurrency to do the job of creating more freedom for humanity. And that is what’s most important to me, I will say. What’s your name? Rafael. Rafael had made a critique about CashFusion not being as anonymous as I said, and it actually is anonymous. The way that it mixes inputs and outputs is just like a mixer. And I am certified in Chainalysis, both in reactor and in KYT and I know for a fact that you can’t trace CashFusion within Bitcoin Cash.
00:51:09:08 – 00:51:36:12
JC Crown: So, I mean, the reason I’m here at this debate, because in my opinion, it’s already over. Ninety percent of the hash, it’s Bitcoin. These projects, you know, they forked a long time ago. They used to say, Oh, we’ll follow the market, the market’s going to decide. Well, the market has decided, it’s four years later now, nobody really uses it. You can look at the volume, it’s nothing. Bitcoin is Bitcoin. If you like Bitcoin, you buy BTC. That said, I mean, I’m here because if I wasn’t here, I was afraid of who would be. So, I had to come up here and make the case and I’m, you know, happy to answer any questions.
00:51:36:14 – 00:52:01:12
Eryka Gemma: Personally, like, from an investment perspective, I do think that all of these coins really do have their merits, but BTC is the only one that has like BNY Mellon, you know, using them. They’re the only ones that have these like, big banks like PayPal and stuff, adopting Bitcoin. They’re the only ones that have a futures exchange coming about them. That doesn’t mean that they’re the best, it just means they’re the only ones that have institutional adoption at this point. So, that’s just a point to make.
00:52:01:16 – 00:52:24:07
Eryka Gemma: Now, I would go and I would say, Hey, who won? Crowd cheer. But I’m not going to do that because it is important for each of you to decide what features you like and which chain you want to operate on, because it is the free market, it is a choice. Nobody is forcing you to use the dollar, okay? I mean, people force you to use the dollar, but nobody is forcing you to use any one of these chains. So, give it up for our panelists, guys.
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